Tigers v Warriors

[ourla]

the top 4 are far better than us and will be for a while.

BTW, who is "the top 4" apart from Chiefs, Sarries, Wasps?

[jgriffin]

For those of you who don't rate Ben Youngs and says he offers slow service, you will have seen today what slow service really looks like when Ben White came on.

I'd have said White's service was faster than BY's today, that said I agree White isn't renowned for the speed of his service

Good God! Really? He slowed it right down!

People really do have tinted glasses on regarding Youngs.

BY constantly uses the 2 step/fixing the guard's technique. This is fine judiciously mixed with some lightning delivery. However given Wuss were offside for most of the first half this closed off any attacks. Once they were being policed in the second half, we prospered along with Ford's change to Sarries tactics. Eastmond offered more penetration and play making. White made no difference to this, his passing was accurate and brisk. I personally prefer Simmons BTW.
What did for us was the substitutions, which often mess defences up for a minute or two.

[DeadlyDunc]

the top 4 are far better than us and will be for a while.

BTW, who is "the top 4" apart from Chiefs, Sarries, Wasps?

Fair point! Ok - top 3 are a standard above the rest - Chiefs, Saracens, Wasps
Next 2 I'd say are better than us - Bath, Gloucester

Its not beyond reason to suggest that we may stumble into a way of playing to compete with Bath & Gloucs but that looks unlikely at the moment. As such, I'd say its plausible to suggest we are in the mix with the rest of the league - like those teams we could beat anyone on our day but in reality we are likely to have more off days than on days?

Europe could be brutal for us again.

[ourla]

the top 4 are far better than us and will be for a while.

BTW, who is "the top 4" apart from Chiefs, Sarries, Wasps?

Fair point! Ok - top 3 are a standard above the rest - Chiefs, Saracens, Wasps
Next 2 I'd say are better than us - Bath, Gloucester

Its not beyond reason to suggest that we may stumble into a way of playing to compete with Bath & Gloucs but that looks unlikely at the moment. As such, I'd say its plausible to suggest we are in the mix with the rest of the league - like those teams we could beat anyone on our day but in reality we are likely to have more off days than on days?

Europe could be brutal for us again.

I think a lot of people refer to top 4 because that is how many play off places there are. At the moment there is a top 2 of Chiefs and Sarries, who have established a way of playing, a culture, an academy, etc., over a sustained period, that is a pretty formidable package. There is a gap to Wasps who are no where as stable or well established but have a big stadium and bought in a lot of talent - and are in the mix to make a challenge. Then there is a further gap to almost effectively everyone else right now.

[Scuttle]

The match stats say it all really. At a quick glance we were up in every area except........tackles won

[mol2]

The match stats say it all really. At a quick glance we were up in every area except........tackles won

Murphy made that point on his Radio Leicester interview after the match.
He would not be drawn into blaming any individual(s) but clearly was only too aware that our one up tacking was way below Premiership standard.

[Scuttle]

We had much superior territory and possession stats but the tackles one is staggering. We had to make 98 and missed 20 from memory; Worcs had to make 222 total and only missed 3 more tackles out of that extra 124

[tripeandonions]

I'm not a fan of shooting the messenger, usually, but I will make an exception, in the case of the OP.

Ah, so it's my fault is it

Haven't seen the game but read this thread and the match feed. Sounds like a horror show on the tackling front in the main. I agree that Worcester aren't that bad and they would have come with licence to just give it a go. So if you miss tackles, you are going to ship tries.

Positives, sounds like the line out and scrum generally decent, G Ford in great form, new signings Denton and Thompson good.

It's a shame to see all the good will directed at Murphy, dissapate rapidly. People complain rugby is becoming like football. Well, here's news for you. It already is, in this respect at least. For me, this one is squarely on the players. No Prem coach should need to teach the basics of tackling and D to pro's of several seasons standing.

Looks like Ben Youngs and Manu will be missing next week so it's going to be backs against the wall. Who knows how we'll perform. At the moment it's erratic and inconsistent.

It looked to be more a case of poorly co-ordinated defending and tackling, rather than individuals being defecient in their technique although there was also some of that. They just didn't seem to know how, as a team, to react to situations when the opposition had the ball.

[johnthegriff]

I find myself pretty much in agreement with JP14's post. Some people are going a bit overboard with comment. We have in the three matches under Murphy shown fight a big improvement on the Exeter performance. We are scoring tries, a big improvement on MOC's system. We are not defending well (or even at all) a problem to solve! If men are in position the coach has done his job if they fail to tackle that is the player's responsibility. I don't think Geordan will have a problem handing out the :censored: to anyone if he deems it necessary but I am sure each try conceded will be examined in detail. Good to see young players involved but as expected they make mistakes hopefully to learn from them. In the olden days a full back calling a mark when unchallenged late in the game causing tired heavy forwards to run back to get on side then run forward again to get to an opposition lineout would have earned a smack from someone big and heavy, I hope the lesson is learned.
If we agree things were not right under Matt O'C then we must realise that everything cannot be corrected overnight, a start has been made I many areas but defence clearly is suffering it is urgent we find out why and correct it.

[Coops]

^^ totally agree johnthegriff.

The Worcester game under MoC may well have gone the same as vs Exeter, but at least we put in a fight and clawed back to earn 2 points. The fact that we shouldn't have leaked as many tries as we did is lost on no one, let alone GM.

[JP14]

In Olowofela’s defence, Kalamafoni should’ve given him the ball a few more times earlier on in the game to let him settle in. Calling the mark was just inexperience on his part, he will learn.

England and Tigers will probably look into beefing him up a little bit in the off-season and preseason, as a skinny lad myself I feared for him every time he got tackled by the Worcester forwards.

[voice of the crumbie]

^^ totally agree johnthegriff.

The Worcester game under MoC may well have gone the same as vs Exeter, but at least we put in a fight and clawed back to earn 2 points. The fact that we shouldn't have leaked as many tries as we did is lost on no one, let alone GM.

Totally agree with you and johnthegriff.

[Mark62]

Excellent post Johnthegriff. There is improvement in many areas unfortunately the one where there is still issues is a biggy which I’m sure the board and Geordan are well aware

[Mark62]

In Olowofela’s defence, Kalamafoni should’ve given him the ball a few more times earlier on in the game to let him settle in. Calling the mark was just inexperience on his part, he will learn.

England and Tigers will probably look into beefing him up a little bit in the off-season and preseason, as a skinny lad myself I feared for him every time he got tackled by the Worcester forwards.

He’s listed as 14 stone 7 in the stats so he’s no lightweight

[BFG]

I find myself pretty much in agreement with JP14's post. Some people are going a bit overboard with comment. We have in the three matches under Murphy shown fight a big improvement on the Exeter performance. We are scoring tries, a big improvement on MOC's system. We are not defending well (or even at all) a problem to solve! If men are in position the coach has done his job if they fail to tackle that is the player's responsibility. I don't think Geordan will have a problem handing out the to anyone if he deems it necessary but I am sure each try conceded will be examined in detail. Good to see young players involved but as expected they make mistakes hopefully to learn from them. In the olden days a full back calling a mark when unchallenged late in the game causing tired heavy forwards to run back to get on side then run forward again to get to an opposition lineout would have earned a smack from someone big and heavy, I hope the lesson is learned.
If we agree things were not right under Matt O'C then we must realise that everything cannot be corrected overnight, a start has been made I many areas but defence clearly is suffering it is urgent we find out why and correct it.

They lost against Exeter in that manner because Exeter are better in defence than the Falcons, Wasps and Worcester.