Tigers v Warriors

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jgriffin
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by jgriffin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:27 pm

h's dad wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:53 pm
Don't think anybody else has mentioned it so it's probably me but just before the first Worcester try, player brought down with a tackle short of the line, gets to his feet without appearing to release and regather the ball and then passes for the try to be scored. Isn't not releasing the ball on being brought to ground by a tackle an offence?
Only if ref rules tackle, as he didn't with Ford after viewing replay. My beouf was with blatant obstruction on 2nd and 4th, preventing drift defence. Sarries do it all the time and get away with it, so consistency there!
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by AngusMcCoatup » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:06 pm

loretta wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:55 am
JP14 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:13 pm
In Olowofela’s defence, Kalamafoni should’ve given him the ball a few more times earlier on in the game to let him settle in. Calling the mark was just inexperience on his part, he will learn.

England and Tigers will probably look into beefing him up a little bit in the off-season and preseason, as a skinny lad myself I feared for him every time he got tackled by the Worcester forwards.
I have it on good authority (my mate's wife's best friend's grand-daughter) that the powers-that-be are doing their level best to beef him up - to no avail!
I am sure I read that Olowofela is a vegetarian or does not eat beef.
Hence it's a bit like asking a blind man to eat up his greens then! :smt016
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by JP14 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:48 pm

In that case there's always Quorn my good man.
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by Scuttle » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:52 pm

"In that case there's always Quorn my good man."



What, the whole village; that would be a big meal for such a slight chap. :smt003
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by Grimlish » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:17 pm

On the tackling;
  • 1st Worcester try - Main break - Their 14 (Heem) runs at a slight gap between Kalamafoni and Denton. Neither puts in an effective tackle, Kala seems to be slightly impeded by Bateman who is just behind and to one side of him, and perhaps tries also to tackle - issues - Bateman trying too hard, SK & DD unclear on roles. Incidentally I think Heem was still held by Olowefela when tackled, not only when he returns to his feet but also still at the time he passes the ball. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • 2nd Worcester try - a dropped/missed pass (Williams touches it but perhaps not intended for him). This creates a turnover by Heem, caught, defence not fully set, their 5 punches a big hole with a blocking run - could and probably should have been a pen to us. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • 3rd try - Their 12 runs at our 13 (MT) and our 12 (GO) moves across to try to tackle 'his' man, leaving their 14 (Heem) free to take the inside ball from their 12 who is tackled by MT (but who cant prevent release of the ball). MT not running ahead, if anything just behind GO, who arguably had created the dog-leg. Who was at fault? Not MT, unless he was expected to drift but that would have hard in the circumstances - deliberate move to target MT/GO. Again - lack of clarity on roles? Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • 4th try - in broken play following a ruck Weir runs at Williams and is half-tackled by Williams, escapes and is then half-tackled by Owen who cant prevent a pass. They are behind us, two try-line rucks later the ball is spun wide to allow a walk-in. Clear missed tackle(s?). Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • 5th try - Mess at the lineout - an overcomplicated routine (?) leads to a failure to lift the jumper. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • Can't see enough of the run up to the try (I'm using the highlights), but its clearly effective play by Warriors.

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by TigerCam » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:27 pm

Grimlish wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:17 pm
On the tackling;
  • 1st Worcester try - Main break - Their 14 (Heem) runs at a slight gap between Kalamafoni and Denton. Neither puts in an effective tackle, Kala seems to be slightly impeded by Bateman who is just behind and to one side of him, and perhaps tries also to tackle - issues - Bateman trying too hard, SK & DD unclear on roles. Incidentally I think Heem was still held by Olowefela when tackled, not only when he returns to his feet but also still at the time he passes the ball. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • 2nd Worcester try - a dropped/missed pass (Williams touches it but perhaps not intended for him). This creates a turnover by Heem, caught, defence not fully set, their 5 punches a big hole with a blocking run - could and probably should have been a pen to us. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • 3rd try - Their 12 runs at our 13 (MT) and our 12 (GO) moves across to try to tackle 'his' man, leaving their 14 (Heem) free to take the inside ball from their 12 who is tackled by MT (but who cant prevent release of the ball). MT not running ahead, if anything just behind GO, who arguably had created the dog-leg. Who was at fault? Not MT, unless he was expected to drift but that would have hard in the circumstances - deliberate move to target MT/GO. Again - lack of clarity on roles? Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • 4th try - in broken play following a ruck Weir runs at Williams and is half-tackled by Williams, escapes and is then half-tackled by Owen who cant prevent a pass. They are behind us, two try-line rucks later the ball is spun wide to allow a walk-in. Clear missed tackle(s?). Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • 5th try - Mess at the lineout - an overcomplicated routine (?) leads to a failure to lift the jumper. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
  • Can't see enough of the run up to the try (I'm using the highlights), but its clearly effective play by Warriors.
as in weeks past a total shambles!!

Christophelp
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by Christophelp » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:44 pm

sapajo wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:39 pm
Like me you are entitled to your opinion but do not present it as fact.
It seems a little unfair that I’m not allowed to do that when that’s exactly what you did?!

It’s a fact that (other than by a minimal amount) none of the Tigers players jump or are lifted and it’s also a fact that Williams falls backwards onto his back/backside with one leg raised in the air. Those two facts point more strongly to the line out being lost due to jumping/lifting issues than they do to the ball being overthrown.

Now it could be that the throw was mistimed (I don’t think it was) but it’s pretty difficult to catch a ball that has been thrown in if nobody jumps or is lifted to catch it.

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by Hot_Charlie » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:45 pm

Grimlish wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:17 pm
On the tackling;
  • 1st Worcester try - Main break - Their 14 (Heem) runs at a slight gap between Kalamafoni and Denton. Neither puts in an effective tackle, Kala seems to be slightly impeded by Bateman who is just behind and to one side of him, and perhaps tries also to tackle - issues - Bateman trying too hard, SK & DD unclear on roles. Incidentally I think Heem was still held by Olowefela when tackled, not only when he returns to his feet but also still at the time he passes the ball. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
Look carefully at the replay and Heem rips his ankle out of Olowofela's grasp so isn't held. One for our young full back to learn from, but certainly not his fault.
  • 2nd Worcester try - a dropped/missed pass (Williams touches it but perhaps not intended for him). This creates a turnover by Heem, caught, defence not fully set, their 5 punches a big hole with a blocking run - could and probably should have been a pen to us. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
Naive on our part. Someone should've tackled the 5 - well maybe not tackle - but at least made the "block" visible by running into him. Less chance of the referee waving play on and making alleged obstruction 100% more obvious. He maybe wouldn't have been left in a position to collect the pass either.
  • 5th try - Mess at the lineout - an overcomplicated routine (?) leads to a failure to lift the jumper. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
Created from Mills 50m clearance from behind a prone Weir, attended by medics, who was blocking any charge down attempt. Again, naivety at playing the referee. Run towards the medics and at least show willing attempt to jump over the injured player and maybe the ref stops play. Not necessarily great sportsmanship, but others will do far worse in attempting to win.

Note: must sign Mills to replace Toomua. Class - underrated - player.
  • Can't see enough of the run up to the try (I'm using the highlights), but its clearly effective play by Warriors.
Although again our cover defence was blocked by an injured player, in this case Jimmy Stevens. See above perhaps!

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by sapajo » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:43 am

Christophelp wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:44 pm
sapajo wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:39 pm
Like me you are entitled to your opinion but do not present it as fact.
It seems a little unfair that I’m not allowed to do that when that’s exactly what you did?!

It’s a fact that (other than by a minimal amount) none of the Tigers players jump or are lifted and it’s also a fact that Williams falls backwards onto his back/backside with one leg raised in the air. Those two facts point more strongly to the line out being lost due to jumping/lifting issues than they do to the ball being overthrown.

Now it could be that the throw was mistimed (I don’t think it was) but it’s pretty difficult to catch a ball that has been thrown in if nobody jumps or is lifted to catch it.
What is a fact is that you do not know Tigers line out calls.
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by h's dad » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:22 am

jgriffin wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:27 pm
h's dad wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:53 pm
Don't think anybody else has mentioned it so it's probably me but just before the first Worcester try, player brought down with a tackle short of the line, gets to his feet without appearing to release and regather the ball and then passes for the try to be scored. Isn't not releasing the ball on being brought to ground by a tackle an offence?
Only if ref rules tackle, as he didn't with Ford after viewing replay. My beouf was with blatant obstruction on 2nd and 4th, preventing drift defence. Sarries do it all the time and get away with it, so consistency there!
It's just that I've seen players pinged recently for not releasing the ball after tackle when the tackles have been the briefest of contacts, just sufficient to unbalance the runner. As you say it is down to the referee.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by h's dad » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:28 am

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:45 pm
Grimlish wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:17 pm
On the tackling;
  • 1st Worcester try - Main break - Their 14 (Heem) runs at a slight gap between Kalamafoni and Denton. Neither puts in an effective tackle, Kala seems to be slightly impeded by Bateman who is just behind and to one side of him, and perhaps tries also to tackle - issues - Bateman trying too hard, SK & DD unclear on roles. Incidentally I think Heem was still held by Olowefela when tackled, not only when he returns to his feet but also still at the time he passes the ball. Our errors compound good play by Warriors
Look carefully at the replay and Heem rips his ankle out of Olowofela's grasp so isn't held. One for our young full back to learn from, but certainly not his fault.
Of course, if he hadn't released Heem, Olowofela may well have been pinged for not releasing the tackled player.

Please note I am not making excuses for the appalling defensive display where some players looked like nervous 8 year olds in their first game of contact.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by 4071 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:15 pm

h's dad wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:22 am
jgriffin wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:27 pm
h's dad wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:53 pm
Don't think anybody else has mentioned it so it's probably me but just before the first Worcester try, player brought down with a tackle short of the line, gets to his feet without appearing to release and regather the ball and then passes for the try to be scored. Isn't not releasing the ball on being brought to ground by a tackle an offence?
Only if ref rules tackle, as he didn't with Ford after viewing replay. My beouf was with blatant obstruction on 2nd and 4th, preventing drift defence. Sarries do it all the time and get away with it, so consistency there!
It's just that I've seen players pinged recently for not releasing the ball after tackle when the tackles have been the briefest of contacts, just sufficient to unbalance the runner. As you say it is down to the referee.
Given that Heem was still held when he went to ground, he got lucky that time. Ref could have called it, but then it would have been a rather controversial decision either way. The sort of 50/50 call you'd normally expect to go to the home side.

There were a few of those 50/50 calls that made me wonder if we were playing at Sixways.

4071
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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by 4071 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:17 pm

Hot_Charlie wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:45 pm

Note: must sign Mills to replace Toomua. Class - underrated - player.
Yup. Really thought he'd go on to great things, but injuries curbed his career development. He's a big lad, but with such a great skill-set. Like a consistent Twelvetrees.

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by sam16111986 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:00 pm

4071 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:17 pm
Hot_Charlie wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:45 pm

Note: must sign Mills to replace Toomua. Class - underrated - player.
Yup. Really thought he'd go on to great things, but injuries curbed his career development. He's a big lad, but with such a great skill-set. Like a consistent Twelvetrees.
He left it late to renew his contract at the end of last season. That was a "long term contract" so unless there are release clauses included he's unlikely to be available.

He was one I very much hoping we would try and tempt earlier in the year. Hopefully we'll see him involved with England soon.

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Re: Tigers v Warriors

Post by JP14 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:48 pm

Going after Mills is a good shout.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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