Ben Kay on Rugby Tonight

[ourla]

Some interesting revelations from Ben Kay on Rugby Tonight:

Claims Mage was only ever an interim appointment and he was a Head Coach not DoR. I'm unconvinced by this. Mage came into work with established DoR Cockerill primarily to work with the backs. That didn't work out but rather than fire Mage and get another guy in they opted to ditch Cockerill and let Mage run with things. That doesn't exactly tally with how Kay describes it. On top of which he later says that unless something disastrous happens Murphy will remain in charge and it sounded to me like they weren't going to actively look for a new Head Coach/DoR at this point. But isnt' that what happened with Mage. Just all smacks of back side covering.

He then tells us that MOC was not on the clubs shortlist but contacted the club himself. And the club were then persuaded that he could do the job. The only bit I would agree on is that MOC did indeed stabilise things in the short term and got us in the play offs. But I don't get the short term thinking, what happened to the people on the list and why despite the mid-season slump, hefty losses and failure to finish top 4, the board were further persuaded to retain MOC.

It is a shambles, it is an emabarrasment and it seems to be continuing on. Murphy, bless him, is a massive punt.

Another question. Why after Cockers left do we seem to have abandoned the DoR concept?

[Grimlish]

What Ben said is exactly what I understood re Mauger and HC/DoR apppointments. DoR was only given to Cockers as a title after a period as Head Coach with no DoR, presumably as a promotion and confirmation of Board support. The Director title would often imply a Board level post (ie attends the controlling Board as a right, not by invitation), although I don't think that has applied at Tigers. I understood AM applied for (or wanted) the job on a permanent basis but didn't get it.

The comment about MOC not being on the shortlist IS interesting though, especially as it begs the question who was on that shortlist originally.

[Coops]

On top of which he later says that unless something disastrous happens Murphy will remain in charge and it sounded to me like they weren't going to actively look for a new Head Coach/DoR at this point.

They're not. GM will be given time so no point even looking., as much was said on Tuesday night.

[chewbacca]

Geordan must be given time to develop his team and style of play. No quick fixes here. What is needed is stability and a return to the values of previous teams, one's Geordan played in. We don't need our head coach looking over his shoulder to see if anyone is coming to replace him. What is needed is support. Our team, good or not now. C'mon Tigers.

[ourla]

DoR was only given to Cockers as a title after a period as Head Coach with no DoR, presumably as a promotion and confirmation of Board support. The Director title would often imply a Board level post (ie attends the controlling Board as a right, not by invitation), although I don't think that has applied at Tigers.

That is as clear as mud to me - seems to have no clarity or transparency in my eyes.

I understood AM applied for (or wanted) the job on a permanent basis but didn't get it.

Correct. But the odd thing is that a few months before they got rid of our long established DoR in favour of AM. Were things so bad at that point. Ironically they seemed concerned we wouldn't make the play offs... and yet a year later...

The comment about MOC not being on the shortlist IS interesting though, especially as it begs the question who was on that shortlist originally.

The shortlist I believe he said was actually for a DoR so I don''t really get this either. It would have made more sense to keep Mage in place, get in a DoR and then the DoR decide on his coaching team. It just seems all rse about tit.

[ourla]

Geordan must be given time to develop his team and style of play. No quick fixes here. What is needed is stability and a return to the values of previous teams, one's Geordan played in. We don't need our head coach looking over his shoulder to see if anyone is coming to replace him. What is needed is support. Our team, good or not now. C'mon Tigers.

The values of previous teams have gone. We have to reset the clock and start again.

But I wonder what is now acceptable season for Murphy. We have continually set the bar high and it seems getting to the play offs is a minimum. Which is kind of right and wrong at the same time, especially given all that's gone before and where we are right now.

I would Geordan is clear in his own mind how to approach the situation.

[chewbacca]

After the first game acceptable would be showing some progress and avoiding relegation.

[BFG]

I simply can't imagine McCall or Baxter allowing a direct media outlet of day to day club affairs to function, how on earth is a club supposed to run a tight ship!
This guy makes me cringe every time he starts rambling!

[Andy W]

I think must of us would settle for playing a slightly better style of rugby, a bit more Tigers' "dog", and perhaps eradication of a few of the more unecessary / long standing problems, ie there is no good reason why the line-out has to be quite so bad (and persistently so).

Where that gets us at the end of the season, who knows? However it would be a big ask for GM to make top 4 from here, under the circumstances. Having a good crack at it though, and with the team progressing (ok, we can debate the metrics on this), would seem objectively reasonable.

What will be quite interesting is to see GM's take on selection, and whether some previous "favourites" fall by the way side, and whether any youngsters or others can benefit from a more meritocratic environment, or just GM preferred combos.

[teds]

I simply can't imagine McCall or Baxter allowing a direct media outlet of day to day club affairs to function, how on earth is a club supposed to run a tight ship!
This guy makes me cringe every time he starts rambling!

Agreed. He has a clear conflict of interest, and I hope he has sense to stand down from the board.

[Tomvarndell]

After the first game acceptable would be showing some progress and avoiding relegation.

So you’d keep Murphy on if Tigers finished 11th?

[RagingBull]

Not sure how it really is a conflict of interest for Leicester Tigers?

[johnthegriff]

Grimlish's take on the Mauger situation after Cocker was sacked is pretty much the same as mine, I do not understand why Ourla finds it unclear, it was well publicised at the time. The reason why there is no Director of Rugby is that the Head Coach is responsible for first team affairs and now not for other matters a Head of Rugby Operations co-ordinates player progression through the Academy and development and scouting and is involved with budgets etc, etc. Someone like Deano is a Director of Rugby not a coach, I am not sure which system I prefer, it probably depends on the people involved which works best but both systems are valid.

[ourla]

Grimlish's take on the Mauger situation after Cocker was sacked is pretty much the same as mine, I do not understand why Ourla finds it unclear, it was well publicised at the time. The reason why there is no Director of Rugby is that the Head Coach is responsible for first team affairs and now not for other matters a Head of Rugby Operations co-ordinates player progression through the Academy and development and scouting and is involved with budgets etc, etc. Someone like Deano is a Director of Rugby not a coach, I am not sure which system I prefer, it probably depends on the people involved which works best but both systems are valid.

The timelines don't match. Glynn became Head of Rugby Operations in December 2014. Cockerill was sacked in January 2017.

Cockerill was a coach. After being sacked he said "This club has made me the person and the coach I am today".

[BFG]

Grimlish's take on the Mauger situation after Cocker was sacked is pretty much the same as mine, I do not understand why Ourla finds it unclear, it was well publicised at the time. The reason why there is no Director of Rugby is that the Head Coach is responsible for first team affairs and now not for other matters a Head of Rugby Operations co-ordinates player progression through the Academy and development and scouting and is involved with budgets etc, etc. Someone like Deano is a Director of Rugby not a coach, I am not sure which system I prefer, it probably depends on the people involved which works best but both systems are valid.

The timelines don't match. Glynn became Head of Rugby Operations in December 2014. Cockerill was sacked in January 2017.

Cockerill was a coach. After being sacked he said "This club has made me the person and the coach I am today".

I agree with ourla, and quite frankly the creation of these strange titles seems little more than an attempt to keep their backs covered and it's happening at the expense of coaches.
Confusion is reigning!
As for the head of rugby operations, the A team lost a home fixture on Monday evening, something Leicester did not do when they were strong so that strength is a myth, also keep in mind that the likes of Evans were on the path before his arrival and Evans is better than any of the current crop in my opinion, and it's also pretty obvious in the timeline of events that his arrival coincides with the beginning of Cockers and Leicester's problems in my opinion.