LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by RagingBull » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:45 am

TTRITH wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:42 am
RagingBull wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:23 am
TTRITH wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:14 am


I'd argue we've got one, we just don't select him. Although injuries may have hampered that.
:smt017 Evans?
Yep. His debut against Gloucester where he chewed out Kvesic when he was in a good run of form springs to mind. Having him and Denton as the two flankers would be an excellent combination in my mind.

But of course, Evans is out of contract this season, doesn't seem to even be close to forcing O'Connor out so maybe another flanker is required.
He's been injured for 18 months and only just came back In the Prem cup.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by johnthegriff » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:03 am

I have had many debates on here mostly with BFG about Harry Thacker. I agree I am from an era when hookers hooked and props propped and I did not think Harry to small, if there was any slight deficiency in Harry's scrummaging it was more than made up for by his speed and activity around the rest of the pitch. However around this time last season Tom Youngs situation was unclear due to his wife's health, both Thacker and McGuigan were having injury problems and MOC decided he wanted an experienced hooker into the squad. the board backed him. Personally I would have tried to keep Harry but he is far too good player to be third choice in his position, I regret his going but understand the thinking at the time.
For me MOC never gave Jonah Holmes an opportunity, he was right that we needed more pace in our backs so Jonny May was a good option but had he looked at Holmes MOC might have thought it better to go with him and retain Slater who we have clearly missed. There was no need to sign Nick Malouf. It was obviously a mistake to let Goneva go to bring in J.P Pietersen, I believe that decision came from Aaron Mauger, the board have to back the coach in giving him the players he wants, it is unfortunate that sometimes player contracts exceed the time available to the Head coach and the new guy has to make do.
I believe the current squad when fit is pretty good, they obviously are not playing as well as we would like but I do believe Geordan can improve that. Defence has to be better, so has discipline, it will be helpful if we can keep fifteen men on the pitch.
I will be travelling to Paris, possibly not expecting a win but not without hope, we will be in La Defense so we must man the barricades and frustrate Racing and hope Mr Owen is even handed in his decision making.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by BFG » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:18 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:03 am
I have had many debates on here mostly with BFG about Harry Thacker. I agree I am from an era when hookers hooked and props propped and I did not think Harry to small, if there was any slight deficiency in Harry's scrummaging it was more than made up for by his speed and activity around the rest of the pitch. However around this time last season Tom Youngs situation was unclear due to his wife's health, both Thacker and McGuigan were having injury problems and MOC decided he wanted an experienced hooker into the squad. the board backed him. Personally I would have tried to keep Harry but he is far too good player to be third choice in his position, I regret his going but understand the thinking at the time.
For me MOC never gave Jonah Holmes an opportunity, he was right that we needed more pace in our backs so Jonny May was a good option but had he looked at Holmes MOC might have thought it better to go with him and retain Slater who we have clearly missed. There was no need to sign Nick Malouf. It was obviously a mistake to let Goneva go to bring in J.P Pietersen, I believe that decision came from Aaron Mauger, the board have to back the coach in giving him the players he wants, it is unfortunate that sometimes player contracts exceed the time available to the Head coach and the new guy has to make do.
I believe the current squad when fit is pretty good, they obviously are not playing as well as we would like but I do believe Geordan can improve that. Defence has to be better, so has discipline, it will be helpful if we can keep fifteen men on the pitch.
I will be travelling to Paris, possibly not expecting a win but not without hope, we will be in La Defense so we must man the barricades and frustrate Racing and hope Mr Owen is even handed in his decision making.
We did have a few... :smt002
I think I'll be defending like it was with Waldrom until Briz concede a penalty try!
He didn't play against the Chiefs and Sarries are yet to come again!
It puts a lot of pressure on the scrum, parity is achievable when everything works but get beaten to the push or lose a bind or a footing alongside him and you are in real trouble, flankers are also tied in which I think a lot didn't notice!
It's all about playing philosophy, I know MOC wanted a defence first policy, that doesn't seem a bad idea at present, but he was prepared to limit attacking potential to kicking it off the park and arm wrestle to get it which was pretty negative.
I've no doubt HT is a good player, but WADR the question is are we trying to catch Sarries or compete with Worcester!
Briz are trying to make a step to stay in the Prem, if and when they want to make the next step then he'll be down the order about where he was here in my opinion.
I do know that HT was very fortunate to get the opportunity and especially with his legs, that deserved a lot more in return than was given in my opinion.
I always suspected that if he didn't get his own way he'd be gone, it was what he was used to getting.
Last edited by BFG on Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by trendylfj » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:11 pm

Always very difficult to move from being "a worker" to being "a boss" in the same company and some might say it is impossible and better to appoint bosses from outside. When Dusty was with us 7/8 years ago our recruitment seemed to be better until this last year when he returned. I am very happy with most of our new signings this year but there are some players I hope are out of contract and would not renew. I can't really see how much they bring to the squad as they rarely come into contention for selection as 1st or 2nd choice.
Joe Ford
Mapapalangi
Fred Tuilagi
Ezcurra
One of
Jimmy Stevens or Ross McMillan
One or two of
Ma'afu, Feao, Hills or Cortes

The other question which must be asked - Smith or Tate - let or retain??

I accept that none of them are expensive as they are only back-up players but we need to have more players who are genuine 1st 23 choices and the only way we can do that is by promoting from within and signing one marque plus 3. I would suggest a centre/FH such as a Handré Pollard if he was available, a 2nd row such as Snyman who is probably out of contract next year (signed for Honda heat in 2017) and is a big lump. Those 2 would certainly be pushing for a starting place whereas the ones I would let go don't.
I am sure there are others in the frame - Cowen-Dickie has been mentioned as a hooker option and probably my 3rd choice such as would be a Mo'unga type who is flexible in a number of back positions. Most of this is pie in the sky but it is an example of the type of player I would be looking to sign to really compete for a starting position

Promote
Heyes, Hardwick, Reffell, White, Simmons, Aspland-Robinson, Jordan and Olowofela on 1 or 2 year contract in order for them to prove themselves at senior level when the serious decision should be made by our coaching team, not by Glynn/Cohen, as to keep them or let them go.
Hehehehehehehehe

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by ellis9 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:35 pm

trendylfj wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:11 pm
Always very difficult to move from being "a worker" to being "a boss" in the same company and some might say it is impossible and better to appoint bosses from outside. When Dusty was with us 7/8 years ago our recruitment seemed to be better until this last year when he returned. I am very happy with most of our new signings this year but there are some players I hope are out of contract and would not renew. I can't really see how much they bring to the squad as they rarely come into contention for selection as 1st or 2nd choice.
Joe Ford
Mapapalangi
Fred Tuilagi
Ezcurra
One of
Jimmy Stevens or Ross McMillan
One or two of
Ma'afu, Feao, Hills or Cortes

The other question which must be asked - Smith or Tate - let or retain??

I accept that none of them are expensive as they are only back-up players but we need to have more players who are genuine 1st 23 choices and the only way we can do that is by promoting from within and signing one marque plus 3. I would suggest a centre/FH such as a Handré Pollard if he was available, a 2nd row such as Snyman who is probably out of contract next year (signed for Honda heat in 2017) and is a big lump. Those 2 would certainly be pushing for a starting place whereas the ones I would let go don't.
I am sure there are others in the frame - Cowen-Dickie has been mentioned as a hooker option and probably my 3rd choice such as would be a Mo'unga type who is flexible in a number of back positions. Most of this is pie in the sky but it is an example of the type of player I would be looking to sign to really compete for a starting position

Promote
Heyes, Hardwick, Reffell, White, Simmons, Aspland-Robinson, Jordan and Olowofela on 1 or 2 year contract in order for them to prove themselves at senior level when the serious decision should be made by our coaching team, not by Glynn/Cohen, as to keep them or let them go.
Dean Richards and Richard Cockerill.

Both went from being a "worker" to "the boss" and both are our most successful DOR/Head Coach.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by drc_007 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:43 pm

I guess Cockerill had a bit of break with his trip to France, I know he was re-signed as a player but seemed to move to the forwards coach quickly.

With regard to Murphy, if the powers that be in Tigers thought he had the potential to be head coach they should have sent him on a sabbatical to the southern hemisphere when he retired from playing. A break from Tigers and a chance to learn new things, then come back after a year or two.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by ellis9 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:49 pm

drc_007 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:43 pm
I guess Cockerill had a bit of break with his trip to France, I know he was re-signed as a player but seemed to move to the forwards coach quickly.

With regard to Murphy, if the powers that be in Tigers thought he had the potential to be head coach they should have sent him on a sabbatical to the southern hemisphere when he retired from playing. A break from Tigers and a chance to learn new things, then come back after a year or two.
Why?

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by RagingBull » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:59 pm

drc_007 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:43 pm
I guess Cockerill had a bit of break with his trip to France, I know he was re-signed as a player but seemed to move to the forwards coach quickly.

With regard to Murphy, if the powers that be in Tigers thought he had the potential to be head coach they should have sent him on a sabbatical to the southern hemisphere when he retired from playing. A break from Tigers and a chance to learn new things, then come back after a year or two.
Murphy was an assistant coach to Wayne Smith for a bit when he retired think he spent quite a few months with a couple of SH coaches.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by voice of the crumbie » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:01 pm

trendylfj wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:11 pm
Always very difficult to move from being "a worker" to being "a boss" in the same company and some might say it is impossible and better to appoint bosses from outside. When Dusty was with us 7/8 years ago our recruitment seemed to be better until this last year when he returned. I am very happy with most of our new signings this year but there are some players I hope are out of contract and would not renew. I can't really see how much they bring to the squad as they rarely come into contention for selection as 1st or 2nd choice.
Joe Ford
Mapapalangi
Fred Tuilagi
Ezcurra
One of
Jimmy Stevens or Ross McMillan
One or two of
Ma'afu, Feao, Hills or Cortes

The other question which must be asked - Smith or Tate - let or retain??

I accept that none of them are expensive as they are only back-up players but we need to have more players who are genuine 1st 23 choices and the only way we can do that is by promoting from within and signing one marque plus 3. I would suggest a centre/FH such as a Handré Pollard if he was available, a 2nd row such as Snyman who is probably out of contract next year (signed for Honda heat in 2017) and is a big lump. Those 2 would certainly be pushing for a starting place whereas the ones I would let go don't.
I am sure there are others in the frame - Cowen-Dickie has been mentioned as a hooker option and probably my 3rd choice such as would be a Mo'unga type who is flexible in a number of back positions. Most of this is pie in the sky but it is an example of the type of player I would be looking to sign to really compete for a starting position

Promote
Heyes, Hardwick, Reffell, White, Simmons, Aspland-Robinson, Jordan and Olowofela on 1 or 2 year contract in order for them to prove themselves at senior level when the serious decision should be made by our coaching team, not by Glynn/Cohen, as to keep them or let them go.
Trendy I agree with some of your suggestions but I'm not sure about others. Ezcurra and Ma'afu are injury cover signings so will be off anyway. Agree with releasing Joe Ford and one of either Tuilagi or Mapapalangi. Feao to my mind has looked good when he has played. So with Ma'afu off I would keep him and Cortes. Hills is a work in progress so I'll reserve judgement.

As regards hooker I'd like to see whether TPN is staying beyond the end of the season and then decide as I can't imagine we'd have enough cap for him plus Tom Youngs and LCD plus a fourth choice.

I like your wish list. Handre Pollard and Snyman yes please!

Not sure about some of your promotions. This season Olowofela has had a few starts and bench outings and has failed to impress on any of them so he's a big question mark for me. Maybe it's a case of excellent as an under 20 but unable to make the step up. Until we see Aspland-Robinson in a premiership game or two I can't comment except to suspect that the reason he's on loan is that management don't think he's ready yet and needs to get more experience.

Tate or Smith? I imagine neither is likely to move to another club and might be more affordable than players we might bring in. There's a lot of rugby experience between them that can help the youngsters when our internationals are away. Provided the price is right I'd be tempted to keep both for another season.
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by drc_007 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:10 pm

ellis9 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:49 pm
drc_007 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:43 pm
I guess Cockerill had a bit of break with his trip to France, I know he was re-signed as a player but seemed to move to the forwards coach quickly.

With regard to Murphy, if the powers that be in Tigers thought he had the potential to be head coach they should have sent him on a sabbatical to the southern hemisphere when he retired from playing. A break from Tigers and a chance to learn new things, then come back after a year or two.
Why?
Need to be tested outside their comfort zone.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by Tiglon » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:17 pm

drc_007 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:10 pm
ellis9 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:49 pm
drc_007 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:43 pm
I guess Cockerill had a bit of break with his trip to France, I know he was re-signed as a player but seemed to move to the forwards coach quickly.

With regard to Murphy, if the powers that be in Tigers thought he had the potential to be head coach they should have sent him on a sabbatical to the southern hemisphere when he retired from playing. A break from Tigers and a chance to learn new things, then come back after a year or two.
Why?
Need to be tested outside their comfort zone.
Need to learn a different way of doing things.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by Hot_Charlie » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:00 pm

trendylfj wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:11 pm

Joe Ford
Mapapalangi
Fred Tuilagi
Ezcurra
One of
Jimmy Stevens or Ross McMillan
One or two of
Ma'afu, Feao, Hills or Cortes
Aspland-Robinson, Jordan and Olowofela on 1 or 2 year contract in order for them to prove themselves at senior level when the s
The other question which must be asked - Smith or Tate - let or retain??
Ford surely will be off if a better replacement is available. Mind you, at least he can find touch...

Mapaplangi - so much potential but often very flakey; a MOC signing?

Fred T - maybe worth another year or so.

Ezcurra - only an injury dispensation anyway to protect whilst YBY away.

Jimmy Stevens is worth keeping as a 3rd/4th choice hooker. McMillan was only ever a short term signing to plug a gap. Hopefully Mahoney will be at a standard to fill a 1st team squad slot next season.

Ma'afu I can't see staying - his scrummaging doesn't cut it. Hills? I think his time may have passed. I wouldn't be surprised if Cortes goes too.

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by JP14 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:56 pm

johnthegriff wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:03 am
I have had many debates on here mostly with BFG about Harry Thacker. I agree I am from an era when hookers hooked and props propped and I did not think Harry to small, if there was any slight deficiency in Harry's scrummaging it was more than made up for by his speed and activity around the rest of the pitch. However around this time last season Tom Youngs situation was unclear due to his wife's health, both Thacker and McGuigan were having injury problems and MOC decided he wanted an experienced hooker into the squad. the board backed him. Personally I would have tried to keep Harry but he is far too good player to be third choice in his position, I regret his going but understand the thinking at the time.
For me MOC never gave Jonah Holmes an opportunity, he was right that we needed more pace in our backs so Jonny May was a good option but had he looked at Holmes MOC might have thought it better to go with him and retain Slater who we have clearly missed. There was no need to sign Nick Malouf. It was obviously a mistake to let Goneva go to bring in J.P Pietersen, I believe that decision came from Aaron Mauger, the board have to back the coach in giving him the players he wants, it is unfortunate that sometimes player contracts exceed the time available to the Head coach and the new guy has to make do.
I believe the current squad when fit is pretty good, they obviously are not playing as well as we would like but I do believe Geordan can improve that. Defence has to be better, so has discipline, it will be helpful if we can keep fifteen men on the pitch.
I will be travelling to Paris, possibly not expecting a win but not without hope, we will be in La Defense so we must man the barricades and frustrate Racing and hope Mr Owen is even handed in his decision making.
Didn’t know Tigers disliked Macron? 😂😂
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by JP14 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:58 pm

drc_007 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:43 pm
I guess Cockerill had a bit of break with his trip to France, I know he was re-signed as a player but seemed to move to the forwards coach quickly.

With regard to Murphy, if the powers that be in Tigers thought he had the potential to be head coach they should have sent him on a sabbatical to the southern hemisphere when he retired from playing. A break from Tigers and a chance to learn new things, then come back after a year or two.
Whenhe was linked with Cardiff I wanted him to go then come back but oh well.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: LEICESTER TIGERS 2018/19 SQUAD/TRANSFERS/CONTRACT THREAD PART 3

Post by JP14 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:01 pm

Mahoney has been very unlucky this year, I think he was on the brim of preseason starts but he has suffered badly with concussion and hasn’t played this season yet.

Mapapalangi had potential but is very touch and go, might be worth keeping if his Southern Hemisphere habits are workable, he is a great lineout option and impact player but his defence is shocking.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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