Tigers v Falcons

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wormus
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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by wormus » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:21 pm

Mark62 wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:58 pm
From social media feeds it would appear we were on the wrong end of Mr Carleys whistle
Tigers are always on the wrong side of Carley's whistle as he tried so hard again to give scores to the opposition, even trying at the end for a penalty try against us + "Is there any reason?" etc ....
At least we had one 10metre for Falcons backchat. I really felt that a yellow card should have been given to the Newcastle player 9? who short armed into Jordan Olowofela and flattened him.
Delighted to see Tom Hardwick get on the field and play well as sub for Kyle Eastmond - who was having a great run out.
However I have great concerns that the forwards having fought so hard for the ball then Ben Youngs repeatedly box kicked it back to them where they ran it forward (not kicked) and set up their tries, Harrison was very selective and did some great tackles on others that missed theirs.
Well done Geordie and all the team.

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by beech » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm

A really encouraging attacking performance but why o why don't we get a defence coach. It has been clear that we have needed one for years but we struggle on without one. Scoring 5 tries was excellent, particularly as some showed outstanding team moves, but giving away tries through pathetic elementary defence mistakes does not give us much hope for the rest of the season
tf22

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by BFG » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:59 pm

Darc Tiger wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:20 pm
I thought Ben was excellent in keeping the tempo high in our attack. Far more fizz from our 9-13 today. Like a completely different set of players. Unshackled. Must keep it up.
Unshackled or just couldn't be so carp again and especially in front of 20k+ at Welford Road!

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by Old Hob » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:13 pm

wormus wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:21 pm
Mark62 wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:58 pm
From social media feeds it would appear we were on the wrong end of Mr Carleys whistle
Tigers are always on the wrong side of Carley's whistle as he tried so hard again to give scores to the opposition, even trying at the end for a penalty try against us + "Is there any reason?" etc ....
At least we had one 10metre for Falcons backchat. I really felt that a yellow card should have been given to the Newcastle player 9? who short armed into Jordan Olowofela and flattened him.
Unfair on Carley who, although missing their offsides and forward passes, seemed to me, listening on the ref mike, to be decisive and even handed. He explained his decisions clearly
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by WhitecapTiger » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:21 pm

Old Hob wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:13 pm
wormus wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:21 pm
Mark62 wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:58 pm
From social media feeds it would appear we were on the wrong end of Mr Carleys whistle
Tigers are always on the wrong side of Carley's whistle as he tried so hard again to give scores to the opposition, even trying at the end for a penalty try against us + "Is there any reason?" etc ....
At least we had one 10metre for Falcons backchat. I really felt that a yellow card should have been given to the Newcastle player 9? who short armed into Jordan Olowofela and flattened him.
Unfair on Carley who, although missing their offsides and forward passes, seemed to me, listening on the ref mike, to be decisive and even handed. He explained his decisions clearly
Reserve judgement until able to match match back but pretty certain that one of those missed forward passes was in the lead up to Falcons' third try in the first half. No 'momentum' issues as it was from a breakdown pass, looked forward in real time, not even a sniff of checking once Falcons had scored.

There were plenty more, hence the ironic cheers when he eventually gave us a decision for one later in the game.
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

westwinds31
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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by westwinds31 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:54 am

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the 12 would normally run the “D” so having a different guy in that position wouldnt have helped. Toomua, then Eastmond and then he’s replaced...not ideal. Someone show Manu the clips of him jumping out of the line leaving everyone else to pick up the pieces.....please. That’s why Gibson and Ant Allen were so valuable, good communicators.

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:06 am

BFG wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:59 pm
Darc Tiger wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:20 pm
I thought Ben was excellent in keeping the tempo high in our attack. Far more fizz from our 9-13 today. Like a completely different set of players. Unshackled. Must keep it up.
Unshackled or just couldn't be so carp again and especially in front of 20k+ at Welford Road!
Or we finally played to our half backs strength instead of playing deep and kicking the ball long and incontestable we played flat to the line and allowed our playmakers to take control.

It's basically everything this message board have been talking about us doing all summer. Geordan clearly agreed.

voice of the crumbie
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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by voice of the crumbie » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:44 am

westwinds31 wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:54 am
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the 12 would normally run the “D” so having a different guy in that position wouldnt have helped. Toomua, then Eastmond and then he’s replaced...not ideal. Someone show Manu the clips of him jumping out of the line leaving everyone else to pick up the pieces.....please. That’s why Gibson and Ant Allen were so valuable, good communicators.
Whilst what you say is to some extent true I think the defence issue is six-fold.

1. We don't seem to have a fully developed defence strategy so there's no organisation for whoever plays 12 to seamlessly slot into and run hence individuals like Manu charging out of the line and creating dog legs for the opposition to exploit. This emphasises the need for a dedicated defence either from outside or using resources already at our disposal e.g. Brett Deacon or Ant Allen.

2. Our individual first up tackling has been poor. This is a player confidence and training ground issue.

3. We don't defend high enough up the pitch after kicking the ball to the opposition. Most of the time yesterday we allowed Falcons to run it back at us with momentum. Think back to last year's home game against Exeter where we pressurised them around their 22 metre line and as a result strangled their game and won. This is what the likes of Sarries and Chiefs do every week.

4. Unnecessary and poor box kicking which allows the opposition to run back at us. Point 3 is relevant here also. If we box kick the ball the follow up chase has to be sharp. I recall only 2 successful box kicks yesterday. One where Sam Harrison found touch and one where Adam Thompstone regathered from Ben Youngs. There was a 3rd instance when we got a scrum following a Falcon's knock-on but I count that more luck than judgement. We showed what we could do with the ball in the 1st half so why not keep it and try to play? I was bemused that we seemed to box kick more when we were down to 14 men. I don't understand the logic of inviting the opposition to attack when you are a man down.

5. Still some issues defending the opposition rolling maul. It was better at times yesterday but we still gave away far too many penalties in this area. Some for pulling down and some for side-entry. This is a coaching and player/team execution and discipline issue. Another fault is not going in low enough to repel/stop the drive. Denton did this at one point yesterday and we turned Falcons over. One thing I don't fully understand is why we often don't compete on opposition line out ball in or near our own 22. Denton achieved one very good tap back when we did compete but for the most part we seem to let the opposition catch the ball unhindered allowing them to set up the drive which is then difficult to defend. When we had the likes of Ben Kay, Fritz van Heerden or Geoff Parling we regularly stole opposition ball. Kitchener used to be good at this also but doesn't seem to attempt it that much these days.

6. We have not been very good at defending against "pick and go" attacking in our own 22. The solutions offered at points 1, 2 and 3 should assist us in combating this.

Plenty to work on but all fixable I believe.
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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:15 am

voice of the crumbie wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:44 am
westwinds31 wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:54 am
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the 12 would normally run the “D” so having a different guy in that position wouldnt have helped. Toomua, then Eastmond and then he’s replaced...not ideal. Someone show Manu the clips of him jumping out of the line leaving everyone else to pick up the pieces.....please. That’s why Gibson and Ant Allen were so valuable, good communicators.
Whilst what you say is to some extent true I think the defence issue is six-fold.

1. We don't seem to have a fully developed defence strategy so there's no organisation for whoever plays 12 to seamlessly slot into and run hence individuals like Manu charging out of the line and creating dog legs for the opposition to exploit. This emphasises the need for a dedicated defence either from outside or using resources already at our disposal e.g. Brett Deacon or Ant Allen.

2. Our individual first up tackling has been poor. This is a player confidence and training ground issue.

3. We don't defend high enough up the pitch after kicking the ball to the opposition. Most of the time yesterday we allowed Falcons to run it back at us with momentum. Think back to last year's home game against Exeter where we pressurised them around their 22 metre line and as a result strangled their game and won. This is what the likes of Sarries and Chiefs do every week.

4. Unnecessary and poor box kicking which allows the opposition to run back at us. Point 3 is relevant here also. If we box kick the ball the follow up chase has to be sharp. I recall only 2 successful box kicks yesterday. One where Sam Harrison found touch and one where Adam Thompstone regathered from Ben Youngs. There was a 3rd instance when we got a scrum following a Falcon's knock-on but I count that more luck than judgement. We showed what we could do with the ball in the 1st half so why not keep it and try to play? I was bemused that we seemed to box kick more when we were down to 14 men. I don't understand the logic of inviting the opposition to attack when you are a man down.

5. Still some issues defending the opposition rolling maul. It was better at times yesterday but we still gave away far too many penalties in this area. Some for pulling down and some for side-entry. This is a coaching and player/team execution and discipline issue. Another fault is not going in low enough to repel/stop the drive. Denton did this at one point yesterday and we turned Falcons over. One thing I don't fully understand is why we often don't compete on opposition line out ball in or near our own 22. Denton achieved one very good tap back when we did compete but for the most part we seem to let the opposition catch the ball unhindered allowing them to set up the drive which is then difficult to defend. When we had the likes of Ben Kay, Fritz van Heerden or Geoff Parling we regularly stole opposition ball. Kitchener used to be good at this also but doesn't seem to attempt it that much these days.

6. We have not been very good at defending against "pick and go" attacking in our own 22. The solutions offered at points 1, 2 and 3 should assist us in combating this.

Plenty to work on but all fixable I believe.
Agree with much of that. Attempting to steal the ball close to the line is frowned upon because you have three players who can't get to the drive until it's probably already started which allows the opposition a good set up.

It's also easy to throw past our lineout disrupters because we normally have one in the pitch. Denton being the only one really capable yesterday of getting up and down quick enough and Kitch had a similar problem last season. Further up the pitch it's worth a gamble of getting your aerial defender up there but any lineout operator worth their salt will throw the ball away from our one lineout stealer, though I'd like to see us throw them up at the front anyway just to apply pressure and force a high, hanging throw allowing us tine to get round and ready to defend.

When Kitch is back hopefully he and Denton can both compete and really disrupt.

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by mightymouse » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:30 am

Spencer and Denton were excellent and made a real difference to our pack. Eastmond was really good whilst he was on. Thomson ok when he came on. The bench props were mixed but not complete disaster. Jimmy Stevens at least as good as any previous 3rd choice hooker we've had.

How Ford made man of the match I have no idea. Defence poor again and his disire to constantly kick the ball away in the last 10 minutes instead of just control the game through possesion was criminal and could have cost us the game on another day.

I would have given either Spencer or Denton MOM.

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by jgriffin » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:39 am

Denton was my MOM
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sam16111986
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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:44 am

mightymouse wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:30 am
Spencer and Denton were excellent and made a real difference to our pack. Eastmond was really good whilst he was on. Thomson ok when he came on. The bench props were mixed but not complete disaster. Jimmy Stevens at least as good as any previous 3rd choice hooker we've had.

How Ford made man of the match I have no idea. Defence poor again and his disire to constantly kick the ball away in the last 10 minutes instead of just control the game through possesion was criminal and could have cost us the game on another day.

I would have given either Spencer or Denton MOM.
Our kick chase isn't good which makes our kicking game look worse. Falcons are good at turning the ball over its optimistic to think we could just drag out the final ten minutes playing ball from our own half. Concede a penalty, Flood kicks to the corner and we're in trouble. Kick deep push up and force them to attack from their half, they concede a penalty and then we can add 3 and it just stretches the lead. If we concede a penalty in their half then at best it's going to our 22 and we should be able to defend from there.

Makes tactical sense. Sometimes you have to be pragmatic, especially in the last 10 minutes of a game against a side that finished 4th last season and who ran Sarries close the week before.

I'd prefer us to have better tactical options available to us but Geordan is still working with what was left behind.

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by ellis9 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:42 am

jgriffin wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:43 pm
LE18 wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:25 pm
It was a great entertaining day today, very enjoyable but a mixed game. Our attack was great, no early silly box kicks, all kicks were long and chased down. First 20/25 mins were great, but then we started to kick it away and they started to come back at us.
Is there anything in the Laws that a player/team can do to stop a rolling maul/5yd line out, because Tigers cannot stop it?

Denton, Spencer, Kalamafoni, Ford all stood out for me, but all players had their moments, Hardwick fitted in well and Olewefola got 7 mins, but I have to close my eyes to some of the defending, better teams could have beaten us.

Having said that Falcons did not give up, they came back at us and old boys Flood, Mcguigan, Goneva were very good and who is this new fit slim long haired prop they have got. When was Muli ever that fit for us, he lasted 65 mins?

Really enjoyed it, I just hope they can improve the tackling and please stop Ben reverting to his old box kicking, no more of that please.
Could be a very enjoyable season! :smt038
Agree 100%, especially BY giving ball away. Got tutted at by some fans for yelling 'stop kicking possession away'
I get the impression that some people will only be happy if Ben never kicks the ball!

The worst box kick of the day came from Harrison when he came on but I never heard anyone complain about that kick.

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by FrontRowUnionMember » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:08 pm

mightymouse wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:30 am
The bench props were mixed but not complete disaster.
How so? Haven't had chance to watch the game yet.

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Re: Tigers v Falcons

Post by johnthegriff » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:12 pm

Some time when forwards are tiring from continuous defending they want to see the ball wellied up field just as far as possible, the backs then have the opportunity to chase and if they get that right anything can happen, kicking a short distance to touch just gives more work to tired forwards as does little pop passes for a drive into the oppositions wall.
I agree defence needs looking at but considering Geordie has had just three training sessions in charge that was a good positive start. Only one lineout lost, a couple won against the throw, no scrums lost. Maul needs some work but was better defending one is tricky, still not sure how it is possible to stop one legally, need the opposition to make a mistake.

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