Exeter team

[sam16111986]

I don't think they looked fit today. Too many very out of breath at the end of the first half, especially amongst the forwards. Compare and contrast to Exeter who looked very energetic.

Takes a lot more energy to defend than it does attack. Chiefs had virtually all of the possession hence our pack had to work their socks off. They were raining in big hits for the first 40 minutes it's bound to take its toll.

[WhitecapTiger]

I don't question the players' commitment, I question the competency of the coaching which is clearly massively sub-standard to anyone who has eyes.

It all needs to be questioned. A group of international quality players should be able to read a game on the pitch and change things when a plan (or lack thereof) isn't working. Easier said than done? Possibly.

Maybe they're scared of losing their place if they go against the coaches directions?

If they are meekly accepting this path then they are as culpable as the coaches.

If you've spent the summer drilling a certain style of play it's then very difficult to get 15 people on the same wave length and co-ordinate a different approach entirely with only a pause in play to do it. Now a top head coach would have plan A, B and C and the leaders on the pitch would move between the plans based on opposition and the point in the game etc. Doubt our head coach has that foresight or ability.

But surely an individual can try something different....it doesn't need a complete revolution, I saw no evidence of that at all today, or even a capability to think/do it.

The more I think about today's game the more I believe that MOC used today as the final pre-season warm up game, resigned to defeat away at Exeter. His 'starters' only really played one warm up match against LIrish, ok so some of that may have been wrapping some in cotton wool but we should have been using those minutes to help condition the players.

His after match comment today of "Now we know the required standard we'll meet it" (or words to that effect) was utterly disgraceful, I could not believe what I was hearing in an interview on TV, those players, those coaches, this club should have been up to the required standard from the first whistle - they weren't. The standard is known or damn well should be.

[G.K]

I don't think they looked fit today. Too many very out of breath at the end of the first half, especially amongst the forwards. Compare and contrast to Exeter who looked very energetic.

Takes a lot more energy to defend than it does attack. Chiefs had virtually all of the possession hence our pack had to work their socks off. They were raining in big hits for the first 40 minutes it's bound to take its toll.

Then don't ****ing well keep kicking the ball away so you have to defend!

[WhitecapTiger]

I don't think they looked fit today. Too many very out of breath at the end of the first half, especially amongst the forwards. Compare and contrast to Exeter who looked very energetic.

Takes a lot more energy to defend than it does attack. Chiefs had virtually all of the possession hence our pack had to work their socks off. They were raining in big hits for the first 40 minutes it's bound to take its toll.

Correct, but most of that was self inflicted, pee poor kicking possession away again - especially to a team who will gleefully run it back at you all day long, that was the root cause of our energy loss IMO.

Tactics, or lack of.

[voice of the crumbie]

Whilst I'm disappointed with some players' performances, I blame the management for that loss. Team selection and game plan should both be questioned and the responsibility for those lies with the team management.

Neither of our wingers nor Manu were brought into this game as much as they should have been and as a result we achieved nothing in the backs. The simple reason for this is that Matt Toomua was off the pace. The result being that when we changed our game plan for the 2nd half the backs did nothing. This shows that the team selection was at fault. The management should know whether a player is up to playing. Picking him, other than on the bench, when a fit Eastmond was available to start shows that the head coach is, as many have suspected, clueless. By the time Eastmond came on we were a beaten team.

If we need further proof of the coach's ineptitude look no further than the game plan. Who picks the best breakdown specialist in the league and then instructs the team to keep kicking the ball long or dead as we did in the first half? Again, if BOC was not up to playing due to a lack of preseason, the fault lies with the coach.

What happened to the lineout? We were told that Bakewell had simplified it and that as a result it would be better. So what happened? Wasn't it simplified enough for the players to operate the new system effectively or was it inept throwing, jumping,lifting, catching or a combination of these?

I could go on but at the moment I'm too disappointed and frustrated. Let me just say something needs to change and very quickly indeed. A very convincing win against Newcastle next Saturday will restore some confidence. Can I see it coming after today's perfomance? Given to litotes as I am, let's just say that I am sceptical. Come on Tigers prove me wrong!

[sam16111986]

I don't think they looked fit today. Too many very out of breath at the end of the first half, especially amongst the forwards. Compare and contrast to Exeter who looked very energetic.

Takes a lot more energy to defend than it does attack. Chiefs had virtually all of the possession hence our pack had to work their socks off. They were raining in big hits for the first 40 minutes it's bound to take its toll.

Correct, but most of that was self inflicted, pee poor kicking possession away again - especially to a team who will gleefully run it back at you all day long, that was the root cause of our energy loss IMO.

Tactics, or lack of.

That was the tactics in the first half though. Use the wind to put it in behind, apply pressure and force turnovers. How that was going to work when our defence had little linespeed and very little contest at the breakdown. The latter was clearly again tactical because all the players were swiftly on the feet and back in the defensive line.

Sarries would have done exactly the same. Difference would be that their defence is well drilled and good enough to apply a suitable amount of pressure.

[WhitecapTiger]

MOC attributed to interview on BBC Radio Leicester:

"We knew coming into it we were probably 40, 60, 80 minutes short of enough rugby for our front line forwards. For a number of reasons we didn't get enough minutes into them in pre-season."

Oh dear God. Even allowing for injuries and wrapping certain 'starters' in cotton wool, what is this bloke doing?

If they weren't fit enough, or too injured, to participate in pre-season, they weren't fit enough to start the season, especially away at Exeter.

That's enough for me, just go. People used to moan about Cockers and his 'excuses' but at least he was always up front and took the hit. Further confirmation that today was just the final pre-season game in my mind.

MOC is clueless, please stop destroying the club I love.

[WhitecapTiger]

Takes a lot more energy to defend than it does attack. Chiefs had virtually all of the possession hence our pack had to work their socks off. They were raining in big hits for the first 40 minutes it's bound to take its toll.

Correct, but most of that was self inflicted, pee poor kicking possession away again - especially to a team who will gleefully run it back at you all day long, that was the root cause of our energy loss IMO.

Tactics, or lack of.

That was the tactics in the first half though. Use the wind to put it in behind, apply pressure and force turnovers. How that was going to work when our defence had little linespeed and very little contest at the breakdown. The latter was clearly again tactical because all the players were swiftly on the feet and back in the defensive line.

Sarries would have done exactly the same. Difference would be that their defence is well drilled and good enough to apply a suitable amount of pressure.

Brings me back to my earlier comment, players incapable of, or too scared to change something that was clearly not working or they were incapable of executing efficiently.

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

If, as you suggest, our plan was to defend and defend some more, I'd refer to MOC's BBC RL comment regarding not getting front line forwards enough pre-season minutes. The players he picked were set up to fail in accomplishing his master plan.

[sam16111986]

Correct, but most of that was self inflicted, pee poor kicking possession away again - especially to a team who will gleefully run it back at you all day long, that was the root cause of our energy loss IMO.

Tactics, or lack of.

That was the tactics in the first half though. Use the wind to put it in behind, apply pressure and force turnovers. How that was going to work when our defence had little linespeed and very little contest at the breakdown. The latter was clearly again tactical because all the players were swiftly on the feet and back in the defensive line.

Sarries would have done exactly the same. Difference would be that their defence is well drilled and good enough to apply a suitable amount of pressure.

Brings me back to my earlier comment, players incapable of, or too scared to change something that was clearly not working or they were incapable of executing efficiently.

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

If, as you suggest, our plan was to defend and defend some more, I'd refer to MOC's BBC RL comment regarding not getting front line forwards enough pre-season minutes. The players he picked were set up to fail in accomplishing his master plan.

Have you played at 9 or 10? Very hard to scrap the game plan and change things completely in play. If you've got half time to go over it then doable but in a 30 second pause in play?

I'm watching the game back. Ben Young's is desperate for forward runners on quick ball but the attacking pattern on every forwards carry is 10m away which sucks all the pace off the ball. Ford's passing is flat and dangerous when there were runners for him, Toomua had his worst game in a Tigers shirt which didn't help.

We had the players to win that game but the coaching set up was so poor the Chiefs just picked us apart. The Chiefs structure was so much simpler than ours and infinitely more effective. I don't know why we don't just run everything off of Ford and then have a runner behind Youngs in case he tries something from the base. Give the decision making back to the players instead of the over elaborate badly scripted mess that we currently have.

[Ian Cant]

Went to the Sale away game last match, last season:Matt O’Connor, look at the recording of the game: we hardly kicked the ball away, Williams hit the rucks hard and even Coley tried the odd offload instead of going to ground which we did too easily for much of last season and today.
Today’s post match comments by O’ Connor would appear, yet again, to show he has no idea how to lead a Premiership Club. If the players weren’t fit, why not or why play them?The lineout again ( along with many other skills) was woeful: last night some young hooker at Bristol looked pretty good chucking in; so basics for the second season are way off the levels expected by Premiership clubs. Yes, most of us will continue to support this once great club but please, BODs, coaches and players let’s have some honesty and some real passion and somebody on the blooming pitch get a reaction from the players. Well done to the many fans who travelled today; great effort and yet once again badly let down by the team and coaches. Now, shall I go and get a new shirt tomorrow: YES.

[POSTIGER]

You have to hand it to MOC, he has well and truly united the fans....


...everyone thinks he's rubbish.

[Bristol Tiger]

Now, shall I go and get a new shirt tomorrow: YES.

What, an Exeter one?

[strawclearer]

I've just read the abject drivel our next former Coach said after the game. I've translated it...

"It's pretty deflating. We knew coming into the game that we were probably 40, 60, 80 minutes shy of enough rugby in our frontline forwards but we couldn't risk them because they are too important for us."

We had a full pre-season of keeping our players well away from anything that might make them fit for play in case they got injured. We've learned our lesson - we're going to wrap all our best players in cotton-wool until the play-offs which we won't be in anyway.

"The first 25 minutes was a very tasty encounter that took a lot of petrol out of us and we couldn't recover."

Exeter had us for breakfast in the first 25 minutes after which we got very tired and couldn't get our breath (or the ball) back.

"Exeter are a very good side and they have put down a massive marker around what they want to achieve this year."

We provided a good benchmark for Rob Baxter and I think we should be given credit for that. He has a much better side than us and, being an ambitious sort of chap, has set things like plans, goals and targets and other things than I don't understand.

"It was probably closer in large parts than it appeared on the scoreboard, but the run they had at the back end of the game was very impressive."

President Trump is right - you shouldn't believe everything you see with your own eyes. That score - where they ran in 6 tries and 40 unanswered points - was more of an alternative fact than a real score. Also, they were very naughty toying with us like that. Next time, they should try scoring at regular intervals rather than at the end.

[G.K]

Yep also useless at PR, the full set.

[WhitecapTiger]

Have you played at 9 or 10? Very hard to scrap the game plan and change things completely in play. If you've got half time to go over it then doable but in a 30 second pause in play?

I'm watching the game back. Ben Young's is desperate for forward runners on quick ball but the attacking pattern on every forwards carry is 10m away which sucks all the pace off the ball. Ford's passing is flat and dangerous when there were runners for him, Toomua had his worst game in a Tigers shirt which didn't help.

We had the players to win that game but the coaching set up was so poor the Chiefs just picked us apart. The Chiefs structure was so much simpler than ours and infinitely more effective. I don't know why we don't just run everything off of Ford and then have a runner behind Youngs in case he tries something from the base. Give the decision making back to the players instead of the over elaborate badly scripted mess that we currently have.

No Sam, I haven't played at 9 or 10. I was a forward, No8 mainly, but played Lock here and there too, so quite often a ball carrier running off 9s and when things weren't going right I wasn't afraid to say s*d this, try something else. Once more, no-one is asking for a wholesale change of game plan in a 30 second pause, just something different now and then instead of slow ruck recycle, pass and kick then tire yourself out defending the next wave. Some of these 'senior' players who seem to want/have such a voice at times should step up on the pitch - where it really matters, grab the team by the scruff off the neck and direct a change in play, even if only the next play. These are professional players, if they cannot try a different play then we are lost, truly lost.

If Ben Youngs isn't getting the runners/lines he desires then Ben Youngs, as a senior player and on field commander ( ) should be grabbing the forwards and saying where it's going wrong - under the posts at conversions if needs be, I didn't see any of that. I had plenty of 9s who were vociferous enough to tell me/us that, and it worked - mix it up a bit, become unpredictable. Too many wannabe leaders (voices) amongst themselves and no-one actually leading. Ultimately that point just glaringly highlights the lack of appropriate pre-season work imo, I may even go as far as to say it demonstrates a lack of coaching ability or foresight not to address the issue in pre-season.

The bit I've highlighted in your post actually almost sides with my argument, except that where seasoned professionals can see something isn't working they shouldn't wait to be empowered, they should empower themselves and hang the consequences. In the event that it doesn't work, or any strategy doesn't work, ad-libbed or not, then it's most likely down to their incompetence.

I am well aware, and onside with you, that we had the players to win that game, also aware that the (lack of effective) game plan killed us before we began but, if the players aren't willing to try heads up rugby, or are incapable of working as a team i.e. listening to impassioned pleas on field of "try this instead" then they're simply not good enough for the shirt - imo.

I've just watched Tom Youngs' post match interview, he looked broken, lost for words but had to find some - I get that in the aftermath, it was sort of honest but nowhere near brutal enough in the cold light of day. It was like watching Steve Borthwick (admirably) defending Johnno / England against Italy in Rome in the 6N all those years ago, everybody knew things were poor but the party line was trotted out.

People (supporters) are fed up of hearing "We can change this", "we are going to change this" or "we will change this", there is no evidence to support any of those claims over the last year and a half (and more). The collective desire is seemingly missing, the top two inches seem to be missing and the output from a group of World / International class players is glaringly absent.

Ordinarily I'd shrug off a loss, try to find positives, particularly in the first match of the season - last year's loss to Bath at home was disappointing but there was more grit and effort than today, just a lack of execution - today we didn't get into any meaningful positions to have a chance at screwing up the execution bit - it was abject surrender, and that is what irks me. It wasn't all down to Exeter's superb play either.