Treviso Preseason Game

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Rugbyflanker
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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:32 am

So what is the deal with Toomua? Is he in NZ next week or back with us? If he is in NZ do we start him in the Chiefs game with no training and possible jetlag?

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by chris111 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:48 am

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:32 am
So what is the deal with Toomua? Is he in NZ next week or back with us? If he is in NZ do we start him in the Chiefs game with no training and possible jetlag?
He’s on the bench this morning so would imagine he’ll be in the squad for next week as well. Looking forward to see if he gets any action.

Assuming he leaves for UK next Sunday that’s plenty of time to get over the jet lag, and he’ll be fighting fit and keen to play....but having not been involved in preseason will probably start the bench.

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by BFG » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:57 pm

Only a pre-season match but it's not really good to lose in any context.
I think if these can struggle against Treviso then they are not as good as being made out.
I suspected so as many found it tough in National One last season.
The pressure to bring them through has been present but some of them are from weak age groups in my opinion.
The Olowafela age group was the toughest in recent years in my opinion and they let go so much potential strength and attitude that had key transitional qualities for senior rugby from that age group in my opinion.
Seeing them bullied up front last night was very saddening to watch and it'll only get worse.
If there are injuries to key senior players then I only see enough room for one or two development players, any more and it could be desparate season and more than that up front could be catastrophic!
I personally think those saying that we have an abundance of great youngsters and putting pressure to include them all are selling MOC and others down the river!
We need to start seeing a proper return on the pitch of the faith being put in them!

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by sam16111986 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:36 pm

BFG wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:57 pm
Only a pre-season match but it's not really good to lose in any context.
I think if these can struggle against Treviso then they are not as good as being made out.
I suspected so as many found it tough in National One last season.
The pressure to bring them through has been present but some of them are from weak age groups in my opinion.
The Olowafela age group was the toughest in recent years in my opinion and they let go so much potential strength and attitude that had key transitional qualities for senior rugby from that age group in my opinion.
Seeing them bullied up front last night was very saddening to watch and it'll only get worse.
If there are injuries to key senior players then I only see enough room for one or two development players, any more and it could be desparate season and more than that up front could be catastrophic!
I personally think those saying that we have an abundance of great youngsters and putting pressure to include them all are selling MOC and others down the river!
We need to start seeing a proper return on the pitch of the faith being put in them!
Whilst I agree that it was far from an ideal showing I'm unsurprised that the younger guys struggled against what looked like a strong Treviso team. I doubt any of that pack will make a start in the first match of the season. Treviso had at least half of their starting pack on the pitch. Italian rugby is in revival they aren't the easy whipping boys they used to be.

I wouldn't write the development players off yet. We aren't looking at them featuring or being ready for the first team regular this season. They are a project for next season (when we'll need them with the RWC).

What worries me is the front row resources. We've seen nothing of Bateman, Cole, Youngs or the new Tongan prop. The options we're currently fielding do nothing to inspire they are either development or mediocre. No sign of Spencer or Kitchener worries as well. I have little faith in Fitzgerald, Stevens and Ma'afu delivering against the Exeter front five.

A touch line conversion and a penalty from halfway sounds like we've found a quality kicker in Hardwick.

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:49 pm

I fully expect our Chiefs XV or as close to it start against LI or something is wrong.

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by BFG » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:13 pm

sam16111986 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:36 pm
BFG wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:57 pm
Only a pre-season match but it's not really good to lose in any context.
I think if these can struggle against Treviso then they are not as good as being made out.
I suspected so as many found it tough in National One last season.
The pressure to bring them through has been present but some of them are from weak age groups in my opinion.
The Olowafela age group was the toughest in recent years in my opinion and they let go so much potential strength and attitude that had key transitional qualities for senior rugby from that age group in my opinion.
Seeing them bullied up front last night was very saddening to watch and it'll only get worse.
If there are injuries to key senior players then I only see enough room for one or two development players, any more and it could be desparate season and more than that up front could be catastrophic!
I personally think those saying that we have an abundance of great youngsters and putting pressure to include them all are selling MOC and others down the river!
We need to start seeing a proper return on the pitch of the faith being put in them!
Whilst I agree that it was far from an ideal showing I'm unsurprised that the younger guys struggled against what looked like a strong Treviso team. I doubt any of that pack will make a start in the first match of the season. Treviso had at least half of their starting pack on the pitch. Italian rugby is in revival they aren't the easy whipping boys they used to be.

I wouldn't write the development players off yet. We aren't looking at them featuring or being ready for the first team regular this season. They are a project for next season (when we'll need them with the RWC).

What worries me is the front row resources. We've seen nothing of Bateman, Cole, Youngs or the new Tongan prop. The options we're currently fielding do nothing to inspire they are either development or mediocre. No sign of Spencer or Kitchener worries as well. I have little faith in Fitzgerald, Stevens and Ma'afu delivering against the Exeter front five.

A touch line conversion and a penalty from halfway sounds like we've found a quality kicker in Hardwick.
This word "project" that keeps coming up concerns me, but aside from that it's about keeping coaches in their jobs and avoiding the whole process reverting back to where Cockers was removed.
They must start helping themselves and bring a positive return on the pitch which in return helps all move forward.
We appear to be stood still and potentially going backwards.

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by sam16111986 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:46 pm

BFG wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:13 pm
sam16111986 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:36 pm
BFG wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:57 pm
Only a pre-season match but it's not really good to lose in any context.
I think if these can struggle against Treviso then they are not as good as being made out.
I suspected so as many found it tough in National One last season.
The pressure to bring them through has been present but some of them are from weak age groups in my opinion.
The Olowafela age group was the toughest in recent years in my opinion and they let go so much potential strength and attitude that had key transitional qualities for senior rugby from that age group in my opinion.
Seeing them bullied up front last night was very saddening to watch and it'll only get worse.
If there are injuries to key senior players then I only see enough room for one or two development players, any more and it could be desparate season and more than that up front could be catastrophic!
I personally think those saying that we have an abundance of great youngsters and putting pressure to include them all are selling MOC and others down the river!
We need to start seeing a proper return on the pitch of the faith being put in them!
Whilst I agree that it was far from an ideal showing I'm unsurprised that the younger guys struggled against what looked like a strong Treviso team. I doubt any of that pack will make a start in the first match of the season. Treviso had at least half of their starting pack on the pitch. Italian rugby is in revival they aren't the easy whipping boys they used to be.

I wouldn't write the development players off yet. We aren't looking at them featuring or being ready for the first team regular this season. They are a project for next season (when we'll need them with the RWC).

What worries me is the front row resources. We've seen nothing of Bateman, Cole, Youngs or the new Tongan prop. The options we're currently fielding do nothing to inspire they are either development or mediocre. No sign of Spencer or Kitchener worries as well. I have little faith in Fitzgerald, Stevens and Ma'afu delivering against the Exeter front five.

A touch line conversion and a penalty from halfway sounds like we've found a quality kicker in Hardwick.
This word "project" that keeps coming up concerns me, but aside from that it's about keeping coaches in their jobs and avoiding the whole process reverting back to where Cockers was removed.
They must start helping themselves and bring a positive return on the pitch which in return helps all move forward.
We appear to be stood still and potentially going backwards.
I certainly think some will come in and make an impact this season (if given the chance). We saw Evans, Simmons and towards the end of the season Worth come in and perform admirably in the first team.

My concerns surround our tight five where the peak age isn't normally pre 20 where our development players in that position are currently at. Our recruitment up front has done little to remove those fears. I think in terms of our squad depth in the tight five we haven't moved forward. Backrow and backline look decent but we are a team that is based around the set piece. I think it might be another season of relying massively on Cole.

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by BFG » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:10 pm

Surely Leicester Tigers aren't looking for normal Sam!
Normal can come back when and if it is no longer, what we require is excellence and we require it to show itself.
That was a strong looking line up against Treviso and certainly if everyone is to be believed.
WADR to the opposition they should be doing better than that in all round performance terms and at very least get enough points on the board through individual moments of brilliance to be closer.
My instincts tell me that it is going to be a very difficult season.

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by jgriffin » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:27 pm

My instincts too. I think we will have a better second half, as usual. whether it will be enough for top 4, we shall see - we should have walked in with our last 3 matches this season just gone.
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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by JP14 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:11 pm

ellis9 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:01 am
JP14 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:51 am
The likelihood is that Owen is probably injured, Tait/Worth is the likely option for 12 against Exeter with Olowefela/Macken/Smith at 13.
May as well play Worth at 12 with Olofewela at 13 or Simmonds at 12 (didn't he play there for England U20's?).

Many people want the academy players playing so why not give the people what they want?!
Tuilagi is fit so at the moment he will probably start at 13 with Eastmond at 12, but’s that’s not a likely probability.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by voice of the crumbie » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:13 pm

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:32 am
So what is the deal with Toomua? Is he in NZ next week or back with us? If he is in NZ do we start him in the Chiefs game with no training and possible jetlag?
You are spot on RF. Toomua will start with no training partnering him at 13 and possible jetlag at loose head prop. :smt005
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by JP14 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:13 pm

BFG wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:57 pm
Only a pre-season match but it's not really good to lose in any context.
I think if these can struggle against Treviso then they are not as good as being made out.
I suspected so as many found it tough in National One last season.
The pressure to bring them through has been present but some of them are from weak age groups in my opinion.
The Olowafela age group was the toughest in recent years in my opinion and they let go so much potential strength and attitude that had key transitional qualities for senior rugby from that age group in my opinion.
Seeing them bullied up front last night was very saddening to watch and it'll only get worse.
If there are injuries to key senior players then I only see enough room for one or two development players, any more and it could be desparate season and more than that up front could be catastrophic!
I personally think those saying that we have an abundance of great youngsters and putting pressure to include them all are selling MOC and others down the river!
We need to start seeing a proper return on the pitch of the faith being put in them!
Well, if you think you’re such an expert why don’t you go be the Academy Manager!
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by JP14 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:19 pm

Harlequins were thrashed 50-17 by Glasgow, so other English clubs are struggling in preseason too.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by ellis9 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:27 pm

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:49 pm
I fully expect our Chiefs XV or as close to it start against LI or something is wrong.
I wouldn't count your chickens. With the injuries we've got and the fact Toomua and TPN won't be here for the friendly, it won't be that strong. Could be the same for the Exeter match too.

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Re: Treviso Preseason Game

Post by JP14 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:08 pm

Wasps thrashed by Connaught too, not a good week for the English club.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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