Ford and Youngs

[Tigers1213]

Firstly I’m in shock how many poor things has been said about Ben youngs.
The guy has come threw the academy and been at Tigers for over 12 years and the lack of respect is shocking.
Ben has started more times at 9 for England than anyone else in history and he continues to do so, just let that sink in for a moment all the great 9s this country has ever had and he comes out on top.
Every England coach for the beat part of 10 years has had Ben as his number 1 scrum half, Johnson, Lancaster and now Jones. Yes a few have had opportunities along the way but Ben has never lost that shirt and theres a reason for that but people on here seem to know more it’s amazing!
Have we even taken a second to think maybe Youngs and Ford have struggled of late because there have played behind struggling packs? Tigers pack have struggled all year and now Englands pack. Any half back will tell you, if the team struggle at breakdown then it makes life very difficult, it’s a fact and you can’t argue that.
If we are going to use the arguement that Harrison and Toomua went well during the 6 nations well maybe that’s because the best players in the premiership weren’t playing bringing Tigers pack back to a level playing field!
Rant over!!!
Anyway get behind your players! Like I said Ben has given 12 years of his life to this club turning down many offers along the way and Ford has choose to come back to this great club. Talking like this is not the Tigers way. It’s not what this great club is about.

[jgriffin]

If you read what some of us were posting you wouldn't rant. No one said he wasn't No 1. What was argued that a winning team was altered both in personnel and tactics and no credit given to the form incumbents. And long service counts for little at Tiger's BTW

[chris111]

Firstly I’m in shock how many poor things has been said about Ben youngs.
The guy has come threw the academy and been at Tigers for over 12 years and the lack of respect is shocking.
Ben has started more times at 9 for England than anyone else in history and he continues to do so, just let that sink in for a moment all the great 9s this country has ever had and he comes out on top.
Every England coach for the beat part of 10 years has had Ben as his number 1 scrum half, Johnson, Lancaster and now Jones. Yes a few have had opportunities along the way but Ben has never lost that shirt and theres a reason for that but people on here seem to know more it’s amazing!
Have we even taken a second to think maybe Youngs and Ford have struggled of late because there have played behind struggling packs? Tigers pack have struggled all year and now Englands pack. Any half back will tell you, if the team struggle at breakdown then it makes life very difficult, it’s a fact and you can’t argue that.
If we are going to use the arguement that Harrison and Toomua went well during the 6 nations well maybe that’s because the best players in the premiership weren’t playing bringing Tigers pack back to a level playing field!
Rant over!!!
Anyway get behind your players! Like I said Ben has given 12 years of his life to this club turning down many offers along the way and Ford has choose to come back to this great club. Talking like this is not the Tigers way. It’s not what this great club is about.

Seconded - it’s certainly fair to say BY has not had his best season, but some of the criticism of him and GF has been excessive (and in one or two cases almost an obsession!).

The most significant weaknesses for Tigers last season were the breakdown and line out (attacking and defending).

[chewbacca]

Both Ben and George are experienced international professional rugby players. I strongly suspect that they are aware when they fail to perform as they would have wished to and are probably their own worst critic.Therefore some of the comments on here are ill mannered at best and yes we should support our players. That doesn't mean that we can't say that players have not had their best game but to rubbish our guys is counter productive.

[BFG]

Firstly I’m in shock how many poor things has been said about Ben youngs.
The guy has come threw the academy and been at Tigers for over 12 years and the lack of respect is shocking.
Ben has started more times at 9 for England than anyone else in history and he continues to do so, just let that sink in for a moment all the great 9s this country has ever had and he comes out on top.
Every England coach for the beat part of 10 years has had Ben as his number 1 scrum half, Johnson, Lancaster and now Jones. Yes a few have had opportunities along the way but Ben has never lost that shirt and theres a reason for that but people on here seem to know more it’s amazing!
Have we even taken a second to think maybe Youngs and Ford have struggled of late because there have played behind struggling packs? Tigers pack have struggled all year and now Englands pack. Any half back will tell you, if the team struggle at breakdown then it makes life very difficult, it’s a fact and you can’t argue that.
If we are going to use the arguement that Harrison and Toomua went well during the 6 nations well maybe that’s because the best players in the premiership weren’t playing bringing Tigers pack back to a level playing field!
Rant over!!!
Anyway get behind your players! Like I said Ben has given 12 years of his life to this club turning down many offers along the way and Ford has choose to come back to this great club. Talking like this is not the Tigers way. It’s not what this great club is about.

Is that supposed to be supportive!

These are professionals being paid thousands of pounds per week to perform, if they don't perform then they are not above criticism.
Especially the extremely highly paid ones!

[jgriffin]

Firstly I’m in shock how many poor things has been said about Ben youngs.
The guy has come threw the academy and been at Tigers for over 12 years and the lack of respect is shocking.
Ben has started more times at 9 for England than anyone else in history and he continues to do so, just let that sink in for a moment all the great 9s this country has ever had and he comes out on top.
Every England coach for the beat part of 10 years has had Ben as his number 1 scrum half, Johnson, Lancaster and now Jones. Yes a few have had opportunities along the way but Ben has never lost that shirt and theres a reason for that but people on here seem to know more it’s amazing!
Have we even taken a second to think maybe Youngs and Ford have struggled of late because there have played behind struggling packs? Tigers pack have struggled all year and now Englands pack. Any half back will tell you, if the team struggle at breakdown then it makes life very difficult, it’s a fact and you can’t argue that.
If we are going to use the arguement that Harrison and Toomua went well during the 6 nations well maybe that’s because the best players in the premiership weren’t playing bringing Tigers pack back to a level playing field!
Rant over!!!
Anyway get behind your players! Like I said Ben has given 12 years of his life to this club turning down many offers along the way and Ford has choose to come back to this great club. Talking like this is not the Tigers way. It’s not what this great club is about.

Is that supposed to be supportive!

These are professionals being paid thousands of pounds per week to perform, if they don't perform then they are not above criticism.
Especially the extremely highly paid ones!

The minute some one exhorts me to get behind the players/team, I want to ask them :censored: do you think I've been doing since 1995? Anything they say is frankly then devalued.

[BFG]

Firstly I’m in shock how many poor things has been said about Ben youngs.
The guy has come threw the academy and been at Tigers for over 12 years and the lack of respect is shocking.
Ben has started more times at 9 for England than anyone else in history and he continues to do so, just let that sink in for a moment all the great 9s this country has ever had and he comes out on top.
Every England coach for the beat part of 10 years has had Ben as his number 1 scrum half, Johnson, Lancaster and now Jones. Yes a few have had opportunities along the way but Ben has never lost that shirt and theres a reason for that but people on here seem to know more it’s amazing!
Have we even taken a second to think maybe Youngs and Ford have struggled of late because there have played behind struggling packs? Tigers pack have struggled all year and now Englands pack. Any half back will tell you, if the team struggle at breakdown then it makes life very difficult, it’s a fact and you can’t argue that.
If we are going to use the arguement that Harrison and Toomua went well during the 6 nations well maybe that’s because the best players in the premiership weren’t playing bringing Tigers pack back to a level playing field!
Rant over!!!
Anyway get behind your players! Like I said Ben has given 12 years of his life to this club turning down many offers along the way and Ford has choose to come back to this great club. Talking like this is not the Tigers way. It’s not what this great club is about.

Is that supposed to be supportive!

These are professionals being paid thousands of pounds per week to perform, if they don't perform then they are not above criticism.
Especially the extremely highly paid ones!

The minute some one exhorts me to get behind the players/team, I want to ask them do you think I've been doing since 1995? Anything they say is frankly then devalued.

1995, good year that top to bottom.
When 9's could pass quicker than a lock could down a pint!

[jgriffin]

I can remember playing when not just me but another couple of players could run between 9 and 10 for the inside pass as a torpedo pass fizzed out, after a scrum that stayed up and took about 3 secs to sort. Different game.

[mol2]

YBY was not back to full fitness after his injury (much like Billy Vunipola) so it's harsh to blame him for not running as we know he can.

However it remains an issue that he spends far too much time waving his hands about trying to milk penalties instead of securing quick ball.
The ref will ping the opposition regardless and when the pack is struggling time wasted getting the ball out can result in penalties against if the ref doesn't agree or simply gets annoyed with the 9 telling him how to do it!

Ford for all his brilliance going forward is too small and compromises the defence. No doubting his commitment or technique in the tackle however hanging on tot he leg of a flanker is not the same as stopping him. Thus you have to defend tight/narrow leaving the wide areas exposed. We saw that at Tigers when Humphries played for us, however his problem was technique rather than size.

England have to move on from Ford however Ben is world class if/when he stops dithering and telling the ref his job.

[ellis9]

YBY was not back to full fitness after his injury (much like Billy Vunipola) so it's harsh to blame him for not running as we know he can.

However it remains an issue that he spends far too much time waving his hands about trying to milk penalties instead of securing quick ball.
The ref will ping the opposition regardless and when the pack is struggling time wasted getting the ball out can result in penalties against if the ref doesn't agree or simply gets annoyed with the 9 telling him how to do it!

Ford for all his brilliance going forward is too small and compromises the defence. No doubting his commitment or technique in the tackle however hanging on tot he leg of a flanker is not the same as stopping him. Thus you have to defend tight/narrow leaving the wide areas exposed. We saw that at Tigers when Humphries played for us, however his problem was technique rather than size.

England have to move on from Ford however Ben is world class if/when he stops dithering and telling the ref his job.

Where has this "waving his arms" idea come from?! Is this yet another band wagon people are joining?!

[mol2]

Ellis, have you ever seen him play?

[BFG]

Ellis, have you ever seen him play?

I did wonder that!
Quite frustrating to watch, when BY does start raising his arms up at the breakdown I can only assume it's some sort of ploy to bring the officials attention to defenders competing for the ball, as if the officials aren't watching already.
He doesn't play referees very well in my opinion.
Just get on with it as quickly as possible because if the ref ain't giving it then he ain't giving it, and being even more slow from the base only affects your own team!

[teds]

Ellis, have you ever seen him play?

I did wonder that!
Quite frustrating to watch, when BY does start raising his arms up at the breakdown I can only assume it's some sort of ploy to bring the officials attention to defenders competing for the ball, as if the officials aren't watching already.
He doesn't play referees very well in my opinion.
Just get on with it as quickly as possible because if the ref ain't giving it then he ain't giving it, and being even more slow from the base only affects your own team!

I actually though Ben Youngs tends to establish good relationships with the officials. He seemed to be having a constructive conversation with Poite at the end of the third test.

[BFG]

Ellis, have you ever seen him play?

I did wonder that!
Quite frustrating to watch, when BY does start raising his arms up at the breakdown I can only assume it's some sort of ploy to bring the officials attention to defenders competing for the ball, as if the officials aren't watching already.
He doesn't play referees very well in my opinion.
Just get on with it as quickly as possible because if the ref ain't giving it then he ain't giving it, and being even more slow from the base only affects your own team!

I actually though Ben Youngs tends to establish good relationships with the officials. He seemed to be having a constructive conversation with Poite at the end of the third test.

Yes more constructive chat than after the first two.
Maybe we should establish a Benometer and count the amount of times the arm raising to the ref actually results in a penalty given against not given and against penalties given without BY approval.

[JP14]

Insert controversial comment here: Conor Murray, the world class scrumhalf, he often wavers for a penalty and does an excellent impression of a footballer. Milking a penalty is the only thing he’s world class at in my opinion.