Ford and Youngs

[ellis9]

It was quite simple really last season in that Ford hardly ever threatened the line or straightened it up,while Toomua often did,and constantly shovelled the ball on. Which one is easier to defend against?
Ben Youngs is often guilty of flapping his arms at the breakdown trying to buy a penalty,slowing the ball down letting the defence number up while Harrison is looking who to pass to a before he gets to the
breakdown. Again which one is easier to defend against?

He doesn't flap his arms.

Ben Youngs is the harder scrum half to defend against as he can do one of a number of things. With Harrison, you know he's going to pass it. The opposition have to be weary of Youngs delayed pass and run through the gap, of which he is best in the league at.

[DeadlyDunc]

It is fair to say that neither Ford or Youngs consistently found their best form for Leicester (or England) last year but to suggest that they aren't class players is hugely unfair.

Both will be under pressure at both Club and Country level to find their best form to ensure places for the 2019 World Cup so i fully expect Youngs & Ford to have some big performances in the opening stages of the season to answer some of the questions raised of them.

If we don't think that the regular starting 9 & 10 for England are good enough for Leicester Tigers then we run the risk of constantly being disappointed by any player that plays for Leicester. The natural ebb & flow of a career means that players will have better times & poorer times but both Ford & Young have done more than enough to show they can give Tigers & England a real platform for success.

Out of interest, which 9's / 10's look international class when their forwards fail to secure quick ball or win the gain line contest? I can't think of one to be honest.

[Leicestertinytiger]

It is fair to say that neither Ford or Youngs consistently found their best form for Leicester (or England) last year but to suggest that they aren't class players is hugely unfair.

Both will be under pressure at both Club and Country level to find their best form to ensure places for the 2019 World Cup so i fully expect Youngs & Ford to have some big performances in the opening stages of the season to answer some of the questions raised of them.

If we don't think that the regular starting 9 & 10 for England are good enough for Leicester Tigers then we run the risk of constantly being disappointed by any player that plays for Leicester. The natural ebb & flow of a career means that players will have better times & poorer times but both Ford & Young have done more than enough to show they can give Tigers & England a real platform for success.

Out of interest, which 9's / 10's look international class when their forwards fail to secure quick ball or win the gain line contest? I can't think of one to be honest.

Couldn’t agree more!!

[jgriffin]

It was quite simple really last season in that Ford hardly ever threatened the line or straightened it up,while Toomua often did,and constantly shovelled the ball on. Which one is easier to defend against?
Ben Youngs is often guilty of flapping his arms at the breakdown trying to buy a penalty,slowing the ball down letting the defence number up while Harrison is looking who to pass to a before he gets to the
breakdown. Again which one is easier to defend against?

He doesn't flap his arms.

Ben Youngs is the harder scrum half to defend against as he can do one of a number of things. With Harrison, you know he's going to pass it. The opposition have to be weary of Youngs delayed pass and run through the gap, of which he is best in the league at.

BY used to be the harder to defend against. You have to look at combinations that work, using the evidence before you. the evidence is that BY and GF have been very average for us, when available. I don't give a flying duck about the carp about them playing for places for England etc etc, I'm looking at what we got last season and winning the AP next season. It's no good having a stuttering Maserati in the garage, better to have a spritely and reliable MX5 on the road.
Those of us who went to the matches noticed a lot of Shazam sniping BTW, but he lacks the last % of pace sometimes.

[BFG]

It is fair to say that neither Ford or Youngs consistently found their best form for Leicester (or England) last year but to suggest that they aren't class players is hugely unfair.

Both will be under pressure at both Club and Country level to find their best form to ensure places for the 2019 World Cup so i fully expect Youngs & Ford to have some big performances in the opening stages of the season to answer some of the questions raised of them.

If we don't think that the regular starting 9 & 10 for England are good enough for Leicester Tigers then we run the risk of constantly being disappointed by any player that plays for Leicester. The natural ebb & flow of a career means that players will have better times & poorer times but both Ford & Young have done more than enough to show they can give Tigers & England a real platform for success.

Out of interest, which 9's / 10's look international class when their forwards fail to secure quick ball or win the gain line contest? I can't think of one to be honest.

All good points but do you want England's style of play directly affecting Leicester's style of play, which coaching culture is affecting our club the most.
The half backs are running the entire show England-esque.
England have not got the dominant forwards to implement what the are trying to do at international level and Leicester have not got the dominant forwards to implement it at Premiership and more so at European level.
It's a great way to play if you can run everything over with those one out balls but when you can't then what, you end up with burned out forwards and slow ball to rushed backs.
You can see Sarries one out runners coming a mile off, difficult for others to stop currently at club level but they meet their match at international level and in Europe last season.
Where is that obsession with one out balls leaving Leicester currently, out of the play offs is where.
We will see where the new additions take it but Leicester are fortunate to possess an alternative approach but they need to use it a bit more and not become ruled by this England/Sarries style which has often been to Leicester's detriment in my opinion.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

At his best Youngs is world class, but his form is so up & down, he needs to be fined everytime he slows down good ball that might concentrate the mind.
Ford is probably the best tactical kicker in the AP & possibly Europe, the rest of his game is better than fine, we just need to use a game plan that he can play.
Neither should be undropable, but as a club we rarely drop the big names regardless of how bad they are playing.

[jgriffin]

At his best Youngs is world class, but his form is so up & down, he needs to be fined everytime he slows down good ball that might concentrate the mind.
Ford is probably the best tactical kicker in the AP & possibly Europe, the rest of his game is better than fine, we just need to use a game plan that he can play.
Neither should be undroppable, but as a club we rarely drop the big names regardless of how bad they are playing.

Amen to that, alas.

[Robespierre]

Good news!!!
I've a feeling that these two could be available for the Tigers in November and during the next 6N!!

[sam16111986]

Mythological status is all we have to go on chris111 as the Harrison/Toomua partnership was broken up at the first opportunity, and Sam was playing so well he was overplayed and looked tired, I imagine him fully conditioned and playing regularly he might be even better, but we don't really know for certain as it never happens.
The only thing we can say with any real foundation is that the rest failed badly in that they played more and the play offs weren't even reached.

The hope I have for next season is we ditch that awful one out runners then throw it to the backs to play wide :censored: MOC introduced at the start of the season. Against Sale in the last game of the season we played off 10 with the forwards making much more yards running off the shoulders of Ford. Gave Youngs spaces to snipe through with the Sale defence trying to race from the breakdown to cover the midfield. If we play like that next season I think the Youngs/Ford combo will fly if not it'll be a long dire season again.

[BFG]

Mythological status is all we have to go on chris111 as the Harrison/Toomua partnership was broken up at the first opportunity, and Sam was playing so well he was overplayed and looked tired, I imagine him fully conditioned and playing regularly he might be even better, but we don't really know for certain as it never happens.
The only thing we can say with any real foundation is that the rest failed badly in that they played more and the play offs weren't even reached.

The hope I have for next season is we ditch that awful one out runners then throw it to the backs to play wide MOC introduced at the start of the season. Against Sale in the last game of the season we played off 10 with the forwards making much more yards running off the shoulders of Ford. Gave Youngs spaces to snipe through with the Sale defence trying to race from the breakdown to cover the midfield. If we play like that next season I think the Youngs/Ford combo will fly if not it'll be a long dire season again.

I really have no idea where the obsession with overplaying these one out runners comes from.
I don't think it's our coach and I only say that based on seeing Mapapalangi earlier in the season trying to offload in behind down the wider channels and BOC line breaking and then Kalamafoni scoring a lovely try later in the season which was encouraging.
It was the bits in between that were sometimes dire, how often do people say their players come back from somewhere playing worse, is it a coincidence!

[sam16111986]

Mythological status is all we have to go on chris111 as the Harrison/Toomua partnership was broken up at the first opportunity, and Sam was playing so well he was overplayed and looked tired, I imagine him fully conditioned and playing regularly he might be even better, but we don't really know for certain as it never happens.
The only thing we can say with any real foundation is that the rest failed badly in that they played more and the play offs weren't even reached.

The hope I have for next season is we ditch that awful one out runners then throw it to the backs to play wide MOC introduced at the start of the season. Against Sale in the last game of the season we played off 10 with the forwards making much more yards running off the shoulders of Ford. Gave Youngs spaces to snipe through with the Sale defence trying to race from the breakdown to cover the midfield. If we play like that next season I think the Youngs/Ford combo will fly if not it'll be a long dire season again.

I really have no idea where the obsession with overplaying these one out runners comes from.
I don't think it's our coach and I only say that based on seeing Mapapalangi earlier in the season trying to offload in behind down the wider channels and BOC line breaking and then Kalamafoni scoring a lovely try later in the season which was encouraging.
It was the bits in between that were sometimes dire, how often do people say their players come back from somewhere playing worse, is it a coincidence!

I think those moments being quite rare are because it's players trying things outside of the game plan. The obsession with one off runners and then throwing it wide has to be the game plan we do it too often for it to be the players preference particularly when Ford spends so much of his time ball in hand looking over his shoulders for runners that aren't there.

[BFG]

Who knows where it comes from Sam, I only know that the half backs are crucial to any game plan.
Robshaw used to run channels and offload in behind for fun, then he got picked for England and it disappeared from his game, different time and different coaches but little has changed and it may have got worse.

[ellis9]

It was quite simple really last season in that Ford hardly ever threatened the line or straightened it up,while Toomua often did,and constantly shovelled the ball on. Which one is easier to defend against?
Ben Youngs is often guilty of flapping his arms at the breakdown trying to buy a penalty,slowing the ball down letting the defence number up while Harrison is looking who to pass to a before he gets to the
breakdown. Again which one is easier to defend against?

He doesn't flap his arms.

Ben Youngs is the harder scrum half to defend against as he can do one of a number of things. With Harrison, you know he's going to pass it. The opposition have to be weary of Youngs delayed pass and run through the gap, of which he is best in the league at.

BY used to be the harder to defend against. You have to look at combinations that work, using the evidence before you. the evidence is that BY and GF have been very average for us, when available. I don't give a flying duck about the carp about them playing for places for England etc etc, I'm looking at what we got last season and winning the AP next season. It's no good having a stuttering Maserati in the garage, better to have a spritely and reliable MX5 on the road.
Those of us who went to the matches noticed a lot of Shazam sniping BTW, but he lacks the last % of pace sometimes.

Those of us that went to the matches?

Yes, I was one of them. I have a season ticket.

[Rugbyflanker]

Who did you give it to?

[jgriffin]

Two of the games were away, weren't they................