Tom Hardwick - 1st Team

[baz1664]

From watching Hardwick today in the Under 20s he looks physically in great shape and had a solid game at centre, I still like him at fly half, his distance kick from 50 metres was outstanding. Tigers need to start playing this younger crop of talent or we will see them start looking elsewhere. Hardwick surely has to be back up centre/fly half next season. Its time the stalwarts like Tait/Smith were given a back seat to allow this young talent to prosper.

A word for Olowofela to, great two tries, he certainly needs to be kept in the first team mix next season.

Need to follow the Exeter way of getting the youngsters in early doors and letting them make strides early doors.

[BFG]

What about the many errors, dropped balls and in particular kicking possession away whilst in the opposition 22 which was idiotic!
When Argentina U20 increased the pace England couldn't cope, Argentina just weren't able to sustain it as U20's but the lines of running and intent to play were far superior to the attritional England.
Curry and Olowafela looked decent but few others.
A fitter side who play with intent will put a big score on England in my opinion.

[kpj tiger]

What about the many errors, dropped balls and in particular kicking possession away whilst in the opposition 22 which was idiotic!
When Argentina U20 increased the pace England couldn't cope, Argentina just weren't able to sustain it as U20's but the lines of running and intent to play were far superior to the attritional England.
Curry and Olowafela looked decent but few others.
A fitter side who play with intent will put a big score on England in my opinion.

Argentina were just as bad for the mistakes and dropped balls, I feel like this England team is one of the least reliant on brute force than others in the past, that said some individuals are (Ibitoye in particular bombed a try because he tried to run over somebody)

[baz1664]

I am more on the lines of the future of the tigers and the young players we have coming through, not expecting experts yet but these players need to be given 1st team exposure that will only advance there skills. Yes the England 20s did drop ball and make routine errors bur surely this is expected at this level!?

[BFG]

What about the many errors, dropped balls and in particular kicking possession away whilst in the opposition 22 which was idiotic!
When Argentina U20 increased the pace England couldn't cope, Argentina just weren't able to sustain it as U20's but the lines of running and intent to play were far superior to the attritional England.
Curry and Olowafela looked decent but few others.
A fitter side who play with intent will put a big score on England in my opinion.

Argentina were just as bad for the mistakes and dropped balls, I feel like this England team is one of the least reliant on brute force than others in the past, that said some individuals are (Ibitoye in particular bombed a try because he tried to run over somebody)

Yes I thought Argentina threw it away.
They opened up England with some good clever play on far too many occasions to lose that game by such a gap in my opinion.
I am sure those good enough will play 1st team, but I saw enough errors under pressure at U20 to think that Premiership might be a bit of a struggle just yet!

[sam16111986]

Hardwick was exceptional in the LV game Vs Bath, against a far more experienced team he and White made Bath look foolish for more than half a game. I'd like to see him given a few more chances next season he's definitely got something and he can't do worse than Joe Ford.

[Rugbyflanker]

Hardwick is easily a better FH than JF,as is Worth

[POSTIGER]

Judging by the relatively light recruitment in the backs department recently I'd guess that Hardwick and Worth probably will be a bit more involved in the first XV next season.

[kpj tiger]

Hardwick is easily a better FH than JF,as is Worth

Hardwick maybe, Worth might be stretching it

[BFG]

I thought Olowafela looked the best of the Leicester bunch, classy player.
I wasn't impressed by White at all, easy to read off the ruck and kicked good attacking ball away.
No idea about Hardwick, playing at 12 today but doesn't look like a 12 to me so hard to say about fly half cover based on that, I didn't mind so much the error that gave away a try but just caught on his heels a bit maybe playing out of position, can certainly kick off the tee though.
Lewis and Heyes far too early to say, didn't look as strong as the starters and as expected nowhere near senior level, even A League could be very difficult in my opinion.

[iceman_19]

BFG - Amazing how two people can see pretty different games!

I thought that were two 10 minute periods (in the first half) where the Pumas looked untouchable, but aside from that England looked comfortable and only really let themselves down with mistakes. Perhaps to be expected in the first game of a tournament. However I don't agree that England somehow got 'let off the hook' - the second half they were utterly dominant. I don't see people labelling Sarries as lucky after Exeter blitzed the first 10; it's an 80 minute game.

I don't think Hardwick is completely to blame for their first score - it was a pants pass by Grayson that was whizzed way to far away from him. In any event, I thought he looked really solid effectively playing out of position at 12, and was far more impressive than Grayson in my eyes. Defensively he dealt with heavy traffic very well, threw some nice passes and a cracking kick to round it off. I'd have him ahead of JF in my depth chart next season.

Olowofewa was the pick of the bunch though - I agree with you there. Beautiful balance and acceleration and looks more physical than I remember. Again, hopefully he gets some game time because he can make things happen.

As for the others:

White - a bit disappointing, hesitant and got caught in possession a couple of times. Good defensive kicking though.

Lewis - Off the bench, didn't make a huge impact and perhaps looked for contact a couple of times when there were guys in space outside him.

Heyes - Scrummaged very well when he came on and looked decent in the loose, one dropped pass aside.

[BFG]

I don't think we are that far apart in what we witnessed iceman_19 but perhaps where we differ in opinion is the differing approaches of the two sides.
I agree the Pumas had periods where they looked untouchable, my view is that if they continue to try and play like that as they develop into men then they'll get better as the strength and fitness levels increase and the accuracy.
England looked comfortable when the game was played at their pace, a slower pace, just not my idea of developing maximum potential I'm afraid.
When you consider how many finals England have made over the years at this level then they should be world beaters, but they are not and until they get over a fear of losing and are encouraged to try and play more as youngsters then they'll continue to hinder their own long term development in my opinion.
I applaud the Grayson/Hardwick mistake for at least attempting to move the ball with pace and I'd like to see much more of it attempted or they'll not be good enough to succeed in the pace of the Premiership.

[sam16111986]

I don't applaud the Grayson mistake, it was lazy and sloppy. Taking the ball to the line and then panicking and throwing a missile at your inside centre because you don't want to take contact isn't great. Grayson looked rushed far too often at 10, when Hardwick stepped in to playmaker then England ticked a little more and Grayson had more time for his long passes to the wing.

Playing quick is fine if you have the players to do it. Argentina's first choice struggled the players off the bench just couldn't. They dominated in the first half because their defence was excellent, cohesive and better tackle technique.

Given the enforced use of the entire squad at these tournaments the teams always lack a little cohesion and you always have a mix of the real talents, some players with decent prospects and those that won't develop much further. It's not going to directly correlate senior success but if you can spot a half dozen high quality players each year and develop then through it puts you in a good place nationally.

[baz1664]

I don't applaud the Grayson mistake, it was lazy and sloppy. Taking the ball to the line and then panicking and throwing a missile at your inside centre because you don't want to take contact isn't great. Grayson looked rushed far too often at 10, when Hardwick stepped in to playmaker then England ticked a little more and Grayson had more time for his long passes to the wing.

Playing quick is fine if you have the players to do it. Argentina's first choice struggled the players off the bench just couldn't. They dominated in the first half because their defence was excellent, cohesive and better tackle technique.

Given the enforced use of the entire squad at these tournaments the teams always lack a little cohesion and you always have a mix of the real talents, some players with decent prospects and those that won't develop much further. It's not going to directly correlate senior success but if you can spot a half dozen high quality players each year and develop then through it puts you in a good place nationally.

Spot on in all aspects, its a team playing under the England badge but we can't expect senior performances right now, its all about development and Tigers have for me two potential senior internationals in Hardwick and Olowofela. Hardwick could turn into a Jonny Sexton type Fly Half and Olowofela is just a carbon copy of Anthony Watson.

[sam16111986]

Hardwick reminds me more of Farrell. His passing game is quite short and direct, he does take the ball to the line more than Farrell though. His kicking game is pretty impressive as well, he slotted the lot Vs Bath in the LV and then that 50m monster against Argentina. He's also got the physicality, he made a number of cover tackles to save Grayson's blushes. He could develop into a really good option for us.