Tour to SA

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BFG
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Re: Tour to SA

Post by BFG » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:21 am

JP14 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:51 pm
I was asking you to name an English XV by the way, I did get what you were saying in the 1st place.
I'll go further than a personal XV and list the many options.

Hooker. Taylor/George/LCD
LH. Mullan/Genge/Waller
TH. Cole/Paul Hill/Cooper-Wooley
Lock. Lawes/Launcbury/Spencer/Kruis
Blindside. Welch/Itoje
Openside. T Curry/B Curry
No8. Clifford/Simmonds/Graham
Scrum half. Youngs/Robson/Spencer
Fly half. Farrell/Ford/Cipriani
Centres. Sam Hill/Sam James/Lozowski/Daly
Left wing. May/Watson
Right wing. Ashton/Rokodoguni
Full back. Brown/Goode

You could easily chuck another few into contention.
Gary Graham has previous Scottish links but has chosen England and was a stand out back row player in the Premiership last season, and Roko who being army qualifies as English by choice more than enough in my opinion.

Cardiff Tig
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Re: Tour to SA

Post by Cardiff Tig » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:38 pm

teds wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:51 pm
Rugbyflanker wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:16 pm
Vickery,Johnson,Hill,Back,Dalaglio,Dawson,Wilkinson,Greenwood,Robinson,Cohen. I can easily find 7 out of those.
But not everyone would agree. For me, I’d give you Johnson, Hill, Wilkinson and Robinson. Only four really. I don’t think any of the rest would have got into any other international team. Ok Dangly into Italy, although he was no Parisse

IMHO, you could argue Wilkinson and Hill were a class above, but apart from that the individuals today are pretty much as good, some better.

What the old England did have was two things that are now missing.
1. leadership
2. balance how many games did Back, Dangly and Hill play together.?

And Vickery? Really?
I think you have to include Back in that list as well, he would have been in pretty much every team at the time.

teds
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Re: Tour to SA

Post by teds » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:41 pm

Cardiff Tig wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:38 pm
I think you have to include Back in that list as well, he would have been in pretty much every team at the time.
Back was certainly a great player and very much ahead of his time in terms of preparation.
I think the label “world class” is subjective which is kind of the point I was trying to make..

FWIW you may remember that Back struggled to get into the England team. He was deemed too small.
Probably got far fewer caps than he deserved, really because at the time the selectors were profoundly amateurish .

As @drc_007 says it’s not necessarily sensible to compare different generations. Certainly Back’s professional level of preparation is now far more common place. But of course he could only compete against the opposition that were available at the time, so I wouldn’t object to you or anyone else choosing to elevate him to world class.

JP14
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Re: Tour to SA

Post by JP14 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:28 am

teds wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:41 pm
Cardiff Tig wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:38 pm
I think you have to include Back in that list as well, he would have been in pretty much every team at the time.
Back was certainly a great player and very much ahead of his time in terms of preparation.
I think the label “world class” is subjective which is kind of the point I was trying to make..

FWIW you may remember that Back struggled to get into the England team. He was deemed too small.
Probably got far fewer caps than he deserved, really because at the time the selectors were profoundly amateurish .

As @drc_007 says it’s not necessarily sensible to compare different generations. Certainly Back’s professional level of preparation is now far more common place. But of course he could only compete against the opposition that were available at the time, so I wouldn’t object to you or anyone else choosing to elevate him to world class.
Selectors are still profoundly amateurish Teds!!!
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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