Tour to SA

[ourla]

For once I am with the head scratching and general disenchantment.

[G.K]

Will be interesting to see how Cips goes but other than that still the same approach with players out of their best position. I expect it will pan out the same way.

BTW What happened to Robson, is he injured? Would have been the ideal game to give hime a game with Cips at 10.

[JP14]

South Africa are not repeating the mistakes of 2009, their starting XV is still a strong one. André Esterhuizen is one crash ball tough nut and was perhaps South Africa's best player against Wales, while outside centre Jesse Kriel has had one of his best seasons with the Bulls. With the pack on front foot ball, we could Jantjies have a good game but personally I think he's more inconsistent that (by the way I'm in the pro-Ford camp).

[JP14]

Here is the team:

1 Beast
2 Rapelle
3 Malherbe
4 Synman
5 Mostert
6 Kolisi
7 P-S du Toit
8 Vermeulen
9 de Klerk
10 Jantijies
11 Dyantyi
12 Esterhuizen
13 Kriel
14 Nkosi
15 Gelant
16 Brits (Farewell you legend )
17 Kitshoff
18 T. du Toit
19 J-L du Preez
20 Notshe
21 Papier
22 Pollard
23 le Roux

[Rugbyflanker]

Watching both games this morning we are miles behind the curve!

[jgriffin]

Just to note (along with JP) the last huzza of one of the nicest people in rugby, Schalk Brits.

[drc_007]

Whilst England won it was a very poor quality match, the only pluses from this tour have been Curry and May.

Slade looks totally out of place in both attack and defence. Not convinced by Brown on the wing but he does a job.

The whole pack seem unable to make any significant headway with ball in hand, they look too upright to me, and are easily stopped in their tracks or driven back.

The injury to Billy Vunipola is a serious concern, not sure Nathan Hughes is the man to replace him.

[ourla]

When all said and done though you've got to be happy with that performance in the context of our run and the way the tour has gone.

[G.K]

Well always good to get a victory but overall a poor tour from where England went backwards (literally) on many occassions. So what did we learn?

England no longer have a top notch pack, Cole will have improved his #1 status without going on tour, but if he gets crocked then what? Marler is better in the scrum than fatty Mako, Genge should be #1 by next year. Itoje has not progressed apart from his ability to give away penalties.

Back row still a problem, although Curry has prospects I don't see Hughes having any. Shields - massive mistake parachuting another kiwi into the team, offers nothing more than Robshaw. I'm fed up with this approach, been proven time and again to be a mistake!

Half back - Youngs too slow at the breakdown, spends too much time with a 'Chicken Run' approach and the box kick is overused, liked to have seen Robson play. Ford is too flakey under pressure, so Farrell or Cips at 10?

Rest of the backs were scupperred by EJ playing them out of position. Daly should be at 13, Slade just a passenger and Brown either retuns to FB or gets dropped. May was the undoubted star.

[JP14]

Sinckler perhaps had his best game in a starting jersey. But I agree with other people, we’re still on the long road to recovery.

I’ll wait to see what Shields brings to the Wasps team in the Premiership before I complete my judgement. Otherwise I’d love to see Wilson start the no6 jersey, T.Curry at 7 and Morgan at 8 in the November Internationals. It’s clear that Vunipola nor Hughes are fit or on form at the moment.

[ellis9]

Well always good to get a victory but overall a poor tour from where England went backwards (literally) on many occassions. So what did we learn?

England no longer have a top notch pack, Cole will have improved his #1 status without going on tour, but if he gets crocked then what? Marler is better in the scrum than fatty Mako, Genge should be #1 by next year. Itoje has not progressed apart from his ability to give away penalties.

Back row still a problem, although Curry has prospects I don't see Hughes having any. Shields - massive mistake parachuting another kiwi into the team, offers nothing more than Robshaw. I'm fed up with this approach, been proven time and again to be a mistake!

Half back - Youngs too slow at the breakdown, spends too much time with a 'Chicken Run' approach and the box kick is overused, liked to have seen Robson play. Ford is too flakey under pressure, so Farrell or Cips at 10?

Rest of the backs were scupperred by EJ playing them out of position. Daly should be at 13, Slade just a passenger and Brown either retuns to FB or gets dropped. May was the undoubted star.

What if part of the game plan was to put a lot of box kicks in? Why would you not pick Youngs, the best there is at box kicks? He isn't too slow at the breakdown either.

[Smudge]

Ellis Wrote

What if part of the game plan was to put a lot of box kicks in? Why would you not pick Youngs, the best there is at box kicks? He isn't too slow at the breakdown either.

I agree. Ellis, and I don't like the "too flakey" comment about George Ford either. Cips is a decent option off the bench but he didn't set the wold on fire yesterday . His cross kick for May's try being the highlight but George has done that on numerous occasions and is a better touch finder. EJ picked Cips yesterday because he was disgruntled with being ignored for so long and the press were on his back. But have a considered look at the rugby press who collectively write such utter :censored:. I still think Ford should be the starting 10 but would have no objection with Cips coming on later if fresh legs are needed.

[BFG]

I didn't watch the game as it was pointless.
Ford dropped and the other poor performers from the two tests before retained and given an easier ride in a meaningless match is just wrong.
England's problems run much deeper than Ford, however no need for Ford supporters to fret as a huge score against is coming if they continue in this fashion in my opinion, it'll likely be the All Blacks but it could be the French, the Irish or the Welsh of they get it right, but it is coming!
The blokes in the pub last night said that Jantijes was England's best player and the poor weather was the leveller that England needed and I read similar online this morning.

[Rugbyflanker]

It was a poor game,Jantjes was awful but we definitely sorted the discipline out. In fact it was a complete 180 with SA very poor in that regard. The DTRR were saying that Youngs wasn't passing to Cips on purpose to get his mate Ford back in the team when it was clearly a tactic,and the correct one,to play everything off 9 because of the weather. But that's the kind of idiots you are dealing with on that website!
Curry was very good as was May again who is my man of the series and Marler had a very good game in the set piece and smashing rucks. Sinckler had his best game so far too. It's the monkey off our back and our very first win at Newlands I believe.

[Leicestertinytiger]

I guess England hopefully can only get better from this. I’ve been impressed by Curry, May and dare I say Brown who have looked good and are cementing their places in the XV.

With some core players and Lions to come back in such as Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Kruis, Haskell, Joseph, Nowell and Watson, they should bring some much needed experience.

On current form I would drop Itoje to the bench for the Autumn tests, make him earn his spot back. Start with Launchbury and Lawes.