Tour to SA

[longlivethecrumbie]

TBF - I've shown no interest in this tour. However, I'm glad that Gengey is on his way home and that he's not going to get broken any further by England and can get rehab and some rest back home ahead of the new season.

To my mind, he's one of our most important players and him not appearing for England is not the end of the world at this stage.

[BFG]

England have been on the slide since the money started rolling in with connected Daddies boys (lacking in character) surrounded by big burly minders, oh and not forgetting the overseas rejects and mercenaries!
They have the odd decent game in them when allowed to bully to victory but beyond this they are a very average group of rugby players.
Time for some changes, Robson and Cipriani need a run of matches at 9 and 10 and Lozowski deserves a run somewhere in midfield.
They are struggling up front in my opinion, I really can't think of too many players who could come in and improve the situation as the English way has once again hit a wall, you'd think that the penny might drop but who cares as long as the money rolls in!
Maybe BOC and Ewers, Spencer and Lawes.
When matched physically England have very little else to offer at international level currently as beyond the first twenty minutes is showing once that physical edge is gone.
Tiredness is an excuse, they don't look tired when allowed to bully!
I don't think Itoje is a lock at international level but perhaps more a blindside but the biggest concern has to be Billy V who understandably doesn't look the same player since injuries, bosh rugby does take it's toll!
England are their own worst enemy in my opinion in how they recruit, how they play and how they refuse to change, even Gatland is proving more versatile which is really saying something!

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Perhaps the lack of 13 in the side doesn't help.

[Jimmy Skitz]

Kyle Sinkler is an awful player, total liability at his role.

Owen Farrell is a pathetic captain, 2 weeks running he’s had the chance at a fairly routine kick at goal to stem the come back and keep the score ticking over and both times he’s thought with his ego, it’s test match rugby, there is no TBP, take the points and win the game

[JP14]

Clearly the Midas Touch has disappeared from Jones, before the tour all the Saracens players were playing well but now look fatigued (again).

The problem stems in both the Premiership and the selection. Wayne Barnes should tell his Weekly Referees gathering that they should be refereeing the games the same as the Pro14. Therefore England will be used to the rules used at international and European level. In terms of selection not enough people are being picked on form, to be fair to Mike Brown he has played well but Sinckler and Marler can go back to Harlequins and never come back. Vunipola is not at his best yet and is becoming what Manu Tuilagi is/was for us for Saracens, while Nathan Hughes is a probably a flat track bully, the term is overused by BFG too much but when it comes to Hughes he is pretty much spot on.

At the moment the form England No8 isn’t being selected, Ben Morgan should be starting those test matches with Sam Simmonds coming off the bench. Our incoming Will Spencer should be in there too and Woodward and Cipriani should be starting too.

Whatever the selections, the main factor in this test series defeat (very likely impending whitewash) was the fact that they didn’t train at altitude. Yes, it may have not made a significant impact on the 1st test but it would’ve been a huge helping hand for the 2nd as the players would have been used to playing at high altitude. Eddie Jones arrogance and stubbornness shining through at the moment. He’s need to listen to people and adapt, otherwise the RFU will be giving him the P45 by Christmas.

#JogOnJones

[sapajo]

Agreed, poor show from Ben Young’s at the end. Pretty awful show from the England team after 20 minutes ... again.

May about the only player that has shown anything on this tour - poor all round.

Mako needs to be dropped next week - needs to learn to stop giving away stupid penalties.

Hoping Genge is fit for next weekend and given a run-out. Need someone with some go forward in the team.

Genge sustained a knee injury in training and its likely he will miss the final test according to Google news.

[JP14]

Genge is returning as stated above, Vunipola flying home for family reasons pre-agreed before tour. Alec Hepburn has been called up in Genge’s place.

1 Hepburn
2 LCD
3 Williams
4 Launchbury (c)
5 Itoje
6 Shields
7 Curry
8 Vunipola
9 Youngs
10 Cipriani
11 Brown
12 Farrell
13 Lozowski
14 May
15 Woodward

George, Marler, Sinckler, Isiekwe, Simmonds, Spencer, Ford, Solomona

This is out there a bit, having an all-Chiefs front row is beneficial which then you can bring on with an all-Harlequins front row plus George. Doubt Hepburn will start over Marler. But changes in the squad such as Cipriani and Lozowski starting is a possibility, Jones is a big fan of Lozowski remember.

[G.K]

Too many overseas players IMO, not only does the shirt mean little to them then if they aren'y good enough for the All Blacks then they aren't good enough for England. Brad Shields - do me a favour and get that white shirt back from him.

Yesterday was just dull, dull play, the forwards are just not up to it. Brown at wing - ridiculous, Daly at Full Back? Slade shown to be just not good enough, Youngs too slow, Ford too limited.

I've already written off the EJ era and his stupid concept of finishers, 10 vice captains (ironic that) and now apprentices and the next RWC, they might limp into the play offs but win it - not a prayer.

[Leicestertinytiger]

Clearly the Midas Touch has disappeared from Jones, before the tour all the Saracens players were playing well but now look fatigued (again).

The problem stems in both the Premiership and the selection. Wayne Barnes should tell his Weekly Referees gathering that they should be refereeing the games the same as the Pro14. Therefore England will be used to the rules used at international and European level. In terms of selection not enough people are being picked on form, to be fair to Mike Brown he has played well but Sinckler and Marler can go back to Harlequins and never come back. Vunipola is not at his best yet and is becoming what Manu Tuilagi is/was for us for Saracens, while Nathan Hughes is a probably a flat track bully, the term is overused by BFG too much but when it comes to Hughes he is pretty much spot on.

At the moment the form England No8 isn’t being selected, Ben Morgan should be starting those test matches with Sam Simmonds coming off the bench. Our incoming Will Spencer should be in there too and Woodward and Cipriani should be starting too.

Whatever the selections, the main factor in this test series defeat (very likely impending whitewash) was the fact that they didn’t train at altitude. Yes, it may have not made a significant impact on the 1st test but it would’ve been a huge helping hand for the 2nd as the players would have been used to playing at high altitude. Eddie Jones arrogance and stubbornness shining through at the moment. He’s need to listen to people and adapt, otherwise the RFU will be giving him the P45 by Christmas.

#JogOnJones

Agree with this, Jones selections have been terrible lately and he seems to not care one bit about form. Take no.8 for example, Hughes and Vunipola weren’t fit and shouldn’t have gone on tour. Simmonds, whilst a quality player at premiership level, doesn’t seem to be able to cut it at test level and doesn’t suit our game plan. Morgan however has international experience and can fill that ball carrying spot, but is nowhere near the squad. Doesn’t make any sense.

[mol2]

Simmonds isn’t big enough to play 8 at international level but he is still growing

[BFG]

Clearly the Midas Touch has disappeared from Jones, before the tour all the Saracens players were playing well but now look fatigued (again).

The problem stems in both the Premiership and the selection. Wayne Barnes should tell his Weekly Referees gathering that they should be refereeing the games the same as the Pro14. Therefore England will be used to the rules used at international and European level. In terms of selection not enough people are being picked on form, to be fair to Mike Brown he has played well but Sinckler and Marler can go back to Harlequins and never come back. Vunipola is not at his best yet and is becoming what Manu Tuilagi is/was for us for Saracens, while Nathan Hughes is a probably a flat track bully, the term is overused by BFG too much but when it comes to Hughes he is pretty much spot on.

At the moment the form England No8 isn’t being selected, Ben Morgan should be starting those test matches with Sam Simmonds coming off the bench. Our incoming Will Spencer should be in there too and Woodward and Cipriani should be starting too.

Whatever the selections, the main factor in this test series defeat (very likely impending whitewash) was the fact that they didn’t train at altitude. Yes, it may have not made a significant impact on the 1st test but it would’ve been a huge helping hand for the 2nd as the players would have been used to playing at high altitude. Eddie Jones arrogance and stubbornness shining through at the moment. He’s need to listen to people and adapt, otherwise the RFU will be giving him the P45 by Christmas.

#JogOnJones

Flat track bully overused, not a chance!
Ben Morgan, make that +1, bigger blinkers than L'escargot (work that one out young un).
There are maybe a dozen players in that squad who are both English enough and good enough and several of those can't even get a decent amount of minutes.
Jones is doing his best to earn a P45 and who can blame him as he knows England aren't good enough and I suspect his lack of flexibility comes from the cosy club around him, whoever is England coach has one hand tied behind them before they even start!

[trendylfj]

"Whatever the selections, the main factor in this test series defeat (very likely impending whitewash) was the fact that they didn’t train at altitude. Yes, it may have not made a significant impact on the 1st test but it would’ve been a huge helping hand for the 2nd as the players would have been used to playing at high altitude. Eddie Jones arrogance and stubbornness shining through at the moment. He’s need to listen to people and adapt, otherwise the RFU will be giving him the P45 by Christmas".

I saw an interview with Gustard who said re training at altitude that every expert they had contacted had told them NOT to train at altitude - when I heard it I thought where did they find these experts from??? Our athletes swear by it, Kenyan athletes swear by it as do other sports and other countries - Cycling/Etheopia for egs. Can't really blame them for asking and taking advice but common sense should have told them to question the advice given.

[biffer]

No way that the RFU will fire Jones. It’ll look like panic 12 months before a World Cup, and despite the fact that panic may well be the presiding emotion at the time, there’s no way the RFU will admit that. He’ll be your coach through 2019.

[JP14]

England could just do a 2007 style-mutiny and take it in their own hands, doubt we have the senior leaders to do that though!

[sam16111986]

Simmonds isn’t big enough to play 8 at international level but he is still growing

Depends entirely in the make up of the pack as a whole and what game plan is being played.

If we insist on playing this one out run directly into contact and repeat until we run out of forwards then give it to the flyhalf. Then he is too small and not at all suitable for the game plan. Then again if that's the game plan then neither Youngs or Ford suit that game plan and neither does our midfield.

If we show some intelligence and identify the fact the Boks forwards are smashing us up front and start playing off of 10 then he's perfect for us. A Shields, Curry, Simmons backrow where the players are running off the shoulders of Ford instead of trucking it up in pods then Simmons explosive carrying is ideal. That he is capable of controlling the ball at the base of a maul which seems beyond our current options is an added bonus.