Tour to SA

[JP14]

Eddie Jones is set to meet the RFU Chiefs over England’s recent form. Can’t blame them, the amount Jones is being paid and England have been awful all year.

He should have picked a younger squad for the SA series and rested more Lions. At least he would have had an excuse when we lost.

Hopefully, Melville will tell Jones to pick Armand or he will get the P45 !!

[G.K]

If he does he'll likely play him at Hooker....

[Soggypitch]

The carping about Shields is daft, ignore the AB situation, how many Northern Hemisphere players would get in the AB backrow? Or their 2nd choice or even 3rd choice? People moan about Shields but big up BOC, no difference in their situation re England, tbh we could state the same re a lot if the England squad.
There is a fair chunk of rotting wood in the squad & too many saplings, after RWC 2019 the should be a proper thought over 2023 & build to that, the results in-between might go down a bit but long term a gain.

I agree with you about Shield, both his parents are English so he's far more England qualified than many others in the squad!

I also agree that good players need to be given a chance to prove themselves, but it is the coaches job to select the best and most promising players, and very often we won't agree, it was forever thus......

What I don't agree with is the idea that all international matches are some kind of a warm up for the next World Cup. Yes the WC is important, but so are all the 6 Nations games, I don't ever want to lose to Wales, and as rarely as possible to all the others, these are VERY important matches, as are the Autumn Internationals against the big 3. Good coaches know how to integrate new players into a successful and experienced team, a team of rookies will never win big Test matches.

The jury is currently out on Jones in this respect, but I still have faith in him for some reason, the internationals in November will be very interesting!!!

[Rugbyflanker]

He has to get 3/4 imo

[mol2]

EJ needs to pick a team and not shoehorn his best 15 players into the side regardless.

[Rugbyflanker]

Same at Welford Road Mol, exactly the same!

[johnthegriff]

I don't think Jones picked his best fifteen players and shoe horned them into the team, I think he is still trying to find out who his best fifteen players are. There are very few positions that players can switch to comfortably from their regular position, 10 to 12 is one of them, some players can move easily from wing to fullback, but not necessarily from fullback to wing. At Tigers Tim Stimson was a great 15 but out of place on the wing whilst Geordan Murphy was comfortable in either position. Brown is more like Stimmo and out of position on the wing. Daly is a great player but a wing or centre unless his club play him at 15 on a regular basis.
Shield's selection was wrong, he is entitled to play for England by birth, that is not the problem, we advise players that play out of England making themselves unavailable for squad training for Elite players that they will not be selected for their national team yet we select a player who has never even played in the Premiership and therefore has not earned the right to be selected ahead of other candidates. If by the time of the Autumn internationals Shields has played half a dozen games for Wasps and his form justifies selection I have no problem but he has to earn a place in the squad.

[G.K]

You'd think that EJ would have more idea who the best 15 are in any position by now. Shuffline the deck has only confused things, Brown is not best the best Wing, Daly is not the best Full Back and Itoje was not the best 6.

I agree about Shields, English parents or not he's still a kiwi and has not earned his place. Personally I'd rather support a proper English team than a team where a about one third of them are SH flags of convenience players. I think this ha been a significant cause in the decline of the team overall since 2003.

[Leicestertinytiger]

Let Daly play centre for England, where he plays for his club. Same with Brown and Watson, they play fullback for club so let them fight for the 15 shirt.

Be interesting for the wingers next season, England almost spoilt for choice with May and Nowell and the returning Ashton and Strettle.

[JP14]

To add to the centre conundrum...

https://youtu.be/xxXTKLUqgeE

[mol2]

I don't think Jones picked his best fifteen players and shoe horned them into the team, I think he is still trying to find out who his best fifteen players are.

It isn’t about picking the best 15 players it’s about picking the best team which is rarely achieved by picking players out of position. I too am not clear if EJ knows who his best 15 players are and I’m sure he seems to have lost his way in picking a team.

The example of Daly and Brown says it all. He plays Daly a Centre and occasional wing at full back and Brown an out an full back on the wing. Is Daly a better full back than Brown? No. Is Brown a better wing than Daly? No. So why do it in a major international? Perhaps against Italy to see if either could provide emergency cover in the event of injuries mid match.

[WildGoose]

(Dons helmet in fear of a barrage of abuse)

I actually think Daly IS a better full-back than Brown - or at least, he is a better bet if we want to challenge at the World Cup.

Defensively, he made errors in SA - but so did everyone (except Jonny May!) and think at altitude probably exacerbated a slightly scrambled brain in a scrambled team. His kicking game is good (when everyone is playing the same game), he's very adept and dextrous in attack and he's been a solid defender on the wing and at 13 - I think that will develop at full-back with time. Plus it's not like Willie Le Roux is a defensive beast either. Folau gets by because he's massive and good in the air, not because he reads the game (not that the positives don't make him awesome, he clearly is).

Dream backline for me is Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Manu (*coughs*), Watson, Daly I think. That's your "score 4 tries a game" team I reckon.

As an aside, it does annoy me how Ford gets a LOT of grief in the press but no-one talks about Farrell, who was actually leading the side and didn't exactly stop the rot or control the game when things were going wrong. Or the much-vaunted forward pack who didn't deliver when it mattered (Mako, Maro etc). Feel like Ford hasn't been at his best (for a while) but really feel he was hung out to dry too. And Jones just caved because the press are obsessed with Cipriani.

I don't think Jones picked his best fifteen players and shoe horned them into the team, I think he is still trying to find out who his best fifteen players are.

It isn’t about picking the best 15 players it’s about picking the best team which is rarely achieved by picking players out of position. I too am not clear if EJ knows who his best 15 players are and I’m sure he seems to have lost his way in picking a team.

The example of Daly and Brown says it all. He plays Daly a Centre and occasional wing at full back and Brown an out an full back on the wing. Is Daly a better full back than Brown? No. Is Brown a better wing than Daly? No. So why do it in a major international? Perhaps against Italy to see if either could provide emergency cover in the event of injuries mid match.

[WildGoose]

(Dons helmet in fear of a barrage of abuse)

I actually think Daly IS a better full-back than Brown - or at least, he is a better bet if we want to challenge at the World Cup.

Defensively, he made errors in SA - but so did everyone (except Jonny May!) and think at altitude probably exacerbated a slightly scrambled brain in a scrambled team. His kicking game is good (when everyone is playing the same game), he's very adept and dextrous in attack and he's been a solid defender on the wing and at 13 - I think that will develop at full-back with time. Plus it's not like Willie Le Roux is a defensive beast either. Folau gets by because he's massive and good in the air, not because he reads the game (not that the positives don't make him awesome, he clearly is).

Dream backline for me is Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Manu (*coughs*), Watson, Daly I think. That's your "score 4 tries a game" team I reckon.

As an aside, it does annoy me how Ford gets a LOT of grief in the press but no-one talks about Farrell, who was actually leading the side and didn't exactly stop the rot or control the game when things were going wrong. Or the much-vaunted forward pack who didn't deliver when it mattered (Mako, Maro etc). Feel like Ford hasn't been at his best (for a while) but really feel he was hung out to dry too. And Jones just caved because the press are obsessed with Cipriani.

I don't think Jones picked his best fifteen players and shoe horned them into the team, I think he is still trying to find out who his best fifteen players are.

It isn’t about picking the best 15 players it’s about picking the best team which is rarely achieved by picking players out of position. I too am not clear if EJ knows who his best 15 players are and I’m sure he seems to have lost his way in picking a team.

The example of Daly and Brown says it all. He plays Daly a Centre and occasional wing at full back and Brown an out an full back on the wing. Is Daly a better full back than Brown? No. Is Brown a better wing than Daly? No. So why do it in a major international? Perhaps against Italy to see if either could provide emergency cover in the event of injuries mid match.

[BFG]

Just look at the quality in this link, the quality that missed out and I could name another squad from this period that in my opinion were better than the current crop.
http://en.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/story/48147.html
Proper rugby players!
Enough said!

[Rugbyflanker]

At least 7/8 truly world class players there BFG! How many do we have today,if any?!