Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

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h's dad
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by h's dad » Fri May 04, 2018 11:35 am

ellis9 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:25 am
h's dad wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 3:04 am
ellis9 wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 8:50 pm


Perhaps the clubs 1st choice is on £400k and 2nd choice on £320k. I'd imagine he has enough people he knows that are in the know. He wouldn't make it up. It's well documented that Tigers are paying too much for a player down the pecking order.
So well over a million to cover a single position. And for Healey's proposal to be valid this has to be typical. Sorry Ellis, but it's drivel
In a squad of 43 players that would leave an average of £149,500 per player for the other 40 players, if the £400k wasn't a marquee player. Obviously, there'd be some players on £200k and some under £100k so those figures are definitely realistic.
So you're saying that a third choice prop is paid twice the average (and probably three or four times the median) for every other position. Drivel. Mind you, hasn't Healey got form for releasing articles under his name that he hasn't even looked at?
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ellis9
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by ellis9 » Fri May 04, 2018 12:34 pm

h's dad wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:35 am
ellis9 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:25 am
h's dad wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 3:04 am

So well over a million to cover a single position. And for Healey's proposal to be valid this has to be typical. Sorry Ellis, but it's drivel
In a squad of 43 players that would leave an average of £149,500 per player for the other 40 players, if the £400k wasn't a marquee player. Obviously, there'd be some players on £200k and some under £100k so those figures are definitely realistic.
So you're saying that a third choice prop is paid twice the average (and probably three or four times the median) for every other position. Drivel. Mind you, hasn't Healey got form for releasing articles under his name that he hasn't even looked at?
That's his point! Someone is being paid too much as a 3rd choice!

h's dad
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by h's dad » Fri May 04, 2018 1:23 pm

ellis9 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 12:34 pm
h's dad wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 11:35 am
ellis9 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:25 am


In a squad of 43 players that would leave an average of £149,500 per player for the other 40 players, if the £400k wasn't a marquee player. Obviously, there'd be some players on £200k and some under £100k so those figures are definitely realistic.
So you're saying that a third choice prop is paid twice the average (and probably three or four times the median) for every other position. Drivel. Mind you, hasn't Healey got form for releasing articles under his name that he hasn't even looked at?
That's his point! Someone is being paid too much as a 3rd choice!
Wrong! His argument is that players in general are being paid too much. His argument is that this is typical. If it is not his proposal simply does not make sense being based on one, almost certainly erroneous, certainly distorting example.

Third string, ie not in the normal matchday 23, players are not paid £300k.
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Leicestertinytiger
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Fri May 04, 2018 1:26 pm

Would Cilliers or Mulipola be on that much money?

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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by Old Hob » Fri May 04, 2018 1:30 pm

It was always a mistake to follow the soccer model rather than the cricket one where players are paid much less; but we are where we are. Wasps have some serious issues resulting in their audit being questioned. When television gets bored and moves on to hockey or NFL or whatever then clubs will implode. Furthermore, I don't buy this "players have a short career" rubbish. Retire at thirty and get another job like everybody else or, as you are so much of a superstar, ordinary work is beneath you?Jjaimie Roberts will be a medic, for instance
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina

ellis9
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by ellis9 » Fri May 04, 2018 1:35 pm

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:26 pm
Would Cilliers or Mulipola be on that much money?
Apparently Cilliers is on a very generous amount of money. So yes, he could be on that amount, just like Healey says and I am trying to explain.

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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Fri May 04, 2018 1:45 pm

ellis9 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:35 pm
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:26 pm
Would Cilliers or Mulipola be on that much money?
Apparently Cilliers is on a very generous amount of money. So yes, he could be on that amount, just like Healey says and I am trying to explain.
Talk about a massive waste of salary cap. The guy is never fit sadly.

voice of the crumbie
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by voice of the crumbie » Fri May 04, 2018 2:02 pm

ellis9 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:35 pm
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:26 pm
Would Cilliers or Mulipola be on that much money?
Apparently Cilliers is on a very generous amount of money. So yes, he could be on that amount, just like Healey says and I am trying to explain.
What is your reliable source of information on the remuneration enjoyed by Cilliers?

I remember Cockers saying in an interview that when Logo joined Tigers he was not on a large amount of money. ( He made a tongue in cheek comment that Tigers were paying him 50p per week). In addition I imagine that his long periods of absence through injury would have made it difficult for his agent (if he has one - Marcos Ayerza famously did not) to push up the value of his contract had it come up for renegotiation during those periods. I therefore surmise that he would have needed to acquire some fairly hefty wage rises to bring him up to the level speculated above.
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by h's dad » Fri May 04, 2018 2:21 pm

ellis9 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:35 pm
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:26 pm
Would Cilliers or Mulipola be on that much money?
Apparently Cilliers is on a very generous amount of money. So yes, he could be on that amount, just like Healey says and I am trying to explain.
Why on earth would you think that somebody who came as fourth choice from their previous club and had a few caps half a dozen years ago would be on that sort of money? Good job you're not on the remuneration panel.
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ellis9
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by ellis9 » Fri May 04, 2018 6:11 pm

h's dad wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 2:21 pm
ellis9 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:35 pm
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:26 pm
Would Cilliers or Mulipola be on that much money?
Apparently Cilliers is on a very generous amount of money. So yes, he could be on that amount, just like Healey says and I am trying to explain.
Why on earth would you think that somebody who came as fourth choice from their previous club and had a few caps half a dozen years ago would be on that sort of money? Good job you're not on the remuneration panel.
I don't think that. I've just heard he is on a lot of money for a 3rd choice.

ellis9
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by ellis9 » Fri May 04, 2018 6:12 pm

voice of the crumbie wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 2:02 pm
ellis9 wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:35 pm
Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:26 pm
Would Cilliers or Mulipola be on that much money?
Apparently Cilliers is on a very generous amount of money. So yes, he could be on that amount, just like Healey says and I am trying to explain.
What is your reliable source of information on the remuneration enjoyed by Cilliers?

I remember Cockers saying in an interview that when Logo joined Tigers he was not on a large amount of money. ( He made a tongue in cheek comment that Tigers were paying him 50p per week). In addition I imagine that his long periods of absence through injury would have made it difficult for his agent (if he has one - Marcos Ayerza famously did not) to push up the value of his contract had it come up for renegotiation during those periods. I therefore surmise that he would have needed to acquire some fairly hefty wage rises to bring him up to the level speculated above.
What's your reliable source that he isn't? I don't know how much he is on. I've just heard he is on a huge amount for a 3rd choice.

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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by BFG » Fri May 04, 2018 6:13 pm

h's dad wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 6:56 pm
This is a Healey clickbait seeking work of fiction.
'nearly £300,000 for a third-string tighthead prop'? If you believe this have a very quick think about what a club's wage bill is likely to be if first and second choices are on a fair bit more. What have you got? - Yep, considerably more than even Saracens are paying. That is probably Dan Cole-ish money. I know of a premiership prop who is on a fraction of that and he's certainly not a third stringer. I don't know whether Healey is making this up or somebody is winding him up.
As for publishing wages in a similar way to the NFL. If they were on the superstar money of the NFL, maybe. That would be up to $37 million a year with an average of $1.9 million a year. Maybe you could apply it to soccer but not to 90% of our guys - it is an invasion of privacy. Some of them may well be embarrassed by how little they are on. Ludicrous and insulting.
Maybe the prop that you know of is just not very good, there are quite a few.
Prop is very much a mixed area across the league in terms of quality, some are proper players and others are little more than too many calories for the amount of exercise.

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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by h's dad » Sat May 05, 2018 12:42 am

BFG wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 6:13 pm
h's dad wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 6:56 pm
This is a Healey clickbait seeking work of fiction.
'nearly £300,000 for a third-string tighthead prop'? If you believe this have a very quick think about what a club's wage bill is likely to be if first and second choices are on a fair bit more. What have you got? - Yep, considerably more than even Saracens are paying. That is probably Dan Cole-ish money. I know of a premiership prop who is on a fraction of that and he's certainly not a third stringer. I don't know whether Healey is making this up or somebody is winding him up.
As for publishing wages in a similar way to the NFL. If they were on the superstar money of the NFL, maybe. That would be up to $37 million a year with an average of $1.9 million a year. Maybe you could apply it to soccer but not to 90% of our guys - it is an invasion of privacy. Some of them may well be embarrassed by how little they are on. Ludicrous and insulting.
Maybe the prop that you know of is just not very good, there are quite a few.
Prop is very much a mixed area across the league in terms of quality, some are proper players and others are little more than too many calories for the amount of exercise.
I don't know how good he is but he is a first choice Premiership prop so I made the assumption that he probably isn't that bad.
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by Tiglon » Sat May 05, 2018 9:10 am

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 4:17 am
This is interesting
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... jIkrt5Gm6Z
This is an interesting link, shame it got missed under the "what's Cilliers on" debate.

Whether a 3rd choice prop really is on 300k or not isn't hugely relevant. Either way, it's clear that most clubs are paying more than they can afford in wages. The losses of teams like Worcester are even more worrying - £8m in one year means they would have to pay almost zero in players wages to break even, so they must have bigger problems than that. I'd love to have a look at their accounts but can't find anything from a quick google.

If the club with the largest commercial opportunities (Tigers) can't turn a profit, then something needs to change.

ellis9
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Re: Premiership clubs will go bust . . .

Post by ellis9 » Sat May 05, 2018 9:14 am

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 4:17 am
This is interesting
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... jIkrt5Gm6Z
Tiglon, it wasn't missed. It was posted on the first page.

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