Squad Analysis

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JackFlashJonny
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Squad Analysis

Post by JackFlashJonny » Wed May 02, 2018 11:51 am

Below is my current squad analysis, nothing is meant personally just my opinion on who is good enough etc

I think I have missed a good few but in essence considering we spend up to the cap (or over it some might say) we seem to get very poor returns for our money- we seem to be lacking in leaders and Tom Youngs is not a captain imo- refs seems to respond awfully to him!

Worth their bacon:
Veainu-not the best defensively but a great player to watch
Kalamafoni- Real workhorse and has grown into the role- still probably a better 6 than 8 though for me
Genge-Turning into a real firecracker of a player and scrums well
BOC- Great player when fit pity he has often been injured during his time
Toomua- Classy player but unfortunately for me our best 10 and 12 currently
TPN- Great signing and great player for me
Tait- Does his job as utility and a great club man
Harrison- Decent no.2 scrumhalf to have
Evans- Looks good when fit and playing not seen enough of that though
Mapalangi- Improving well hoping to see more
Holmes- Looks a great player we should see more of hopefully

Jurys out:
G Ford- Been poor most of the season for me I would rather of kept Burns but we shall see if he can push on
B Youngs- Never seems to play that well for Leicester anymore
May- Rapid but never seems to spark anything and never the difference like Goneva for instance
T Youngs- Better this season but has been poor for a good few years now especially throwing wise- given when he re-signed I would presume he is on far more than he is currently giving- I would happily put him in the not up to standard section personally if it wasn't for his heart and character- categorically not a captain though for me
Thompstone- Solid player but thats it
Smith- Solid club player will do a job when needed
Cole- Great in the scrum but seems lacking elsewhere nowadays
Owen- Looks great when playing but always injured
Wells- Seems alright
Fitzgerald- Does many good things but also a penalty machine at times
Bateman- Great around the park but scrum seems to struggle sometimes when he is on

Not up to standard:
Kitchener- Seems very lightweight and lacking at the top level for me
Manu- Really fear the Manu we know and have paid a ton of money for no longer exists...fingers crossed here though
Cilliers- Injured always never seems that great when I have watched him
Joe Ford- Just not good enough unfortunately

Pakalani-unknown due to injury

Leaving-
Brady- average
Williams- poor mans Haskell for me
Hamilton- Decent player but not top class
McGuigan- Never pushed on
Thacker- Very interested to see how he goes at Bristol
Mulipola- Decent but again often injured
Ryan- Hopefully leaving as is average
Malouf- Seemed a good player in the making wish him well
Bauman- Who?

Tiglon
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by Tiglon » Wed May 02, 2018 12:01 pm

I agree with most of that, the only different opinions I would have are:

Veainu - Not so much of the magic of late, and his defence has been rather weak. Possibly gives away as many tries as he creates. Jury is out for me.

Genge and Toomua - Should be in their own category titled "players to build a team around".

Kitchener - I have criticised him a lot this season but I think he has shown something closer to his best form in recent weeks, having Spencer alongside him might help. Jury is out.

May - Worth his bacon, has scored some really important tries this season and is a world class finisher.

Ben Youngs and Ford - Agree, but would add that both seem to have forgotten how to play adventurous rugby. Maybe lacking in confidence, maybe age has made them scared to make mistakes.

Some of those under "jury's out" are probably worth their bacon in terms of value for their likely salaries (Bateman, Thompstone, Smith, Owen, Wells).

Leicestertinytiger
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Wed May 02, 2018 12:06 pm

Veainu I feel a bit sorry for. He has stated himself he sees himself as a winger and should be our starting 14, not 15. Lack of player resources has meant we are playing him out of position.

JackFlashJonny
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by JackFlashJonny » Wed May 02, 2018 12:08 pm

I agree Tiglon with most of your sentiments and those in the jury's out section you listed should be elsewhere I wasn't going to call it Jury's out hence it was just a tier under the better players

The Toomua and Genge build a team around is spot on too :smt023

Kitchener is just nowhere near as many of the lineout calling his locks in his category for me (Slater included)

May whilst a great finisher like I said he is never the difference and considering his pace doesn't seem to beat people that often compared to say a Wade

h's dad
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by h's dad » Wed May 02, 2018 12:10 pm

JackFlashJonny wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:51 am
Below is my current squad analysis, nothing is meant personally just my opinion on who is good enough etc

I think I have missed a good few but in essence considering we spend up to the cap (or over it some might say) we seem to get very poor returns for our money- we seem to be lacking in leaders and Tom Youngs is not a captain imo- refs seems to respond awfully to him!

Worth their bacon:
Veainu-not the best defensively but a great player to watch
Kalamafoni- Real workhorse and has grown into the role- still probably a better 6 than 8 though for me
Genge-Turning into a real firecracker of a player and scrums well
BOC- Great player when fit pity he has often been injured during his time
Toomua- Classy player but unfortunately for me our best 10 and 12 currently
TPN- Great signing and great player for me
Tait- Does his job as utility and a great club man
Harrison- Decent no.2 scrumhalf to have
Evans- Looks good when fit and playing not seen enough of that though
Mapalangi- Improving well hoping to see more
Holmes- Looks a great player we should see more of hopefully

Jurys out:
G Ford- Been poor most of the season for me I would rather of kept Burns but we shall see if he can push on
B Youngs- Never seems to play that well for Leicester anymore
May- Rapid but never seems to spark anything and never the difference like Goneva for instance
T Youngs- Better this season but has been poor for a good few years now especially throwing wise- given when he re-signed I would presume he is on far more than he is currently giving- I would happily put him in the not up to standard section personally if it wasn't for his heart and character- categorically not a captain though for me
Thompstone- Solid player but thats it
Smith- Solid club player will do a job when needed
Cole- Great in the scrum but seems lacking elsewhere nowadays
Owen- Looks great when playing but always injured
Wells- Seems alright
Fitzgerald- Does many good things but also a penalty machine at times
Bateman- Great around the park but scrum seems to struggle sometimes when he is on

Not up to standard:
Kitchener- Seems very lightweight and lacking at the top level for me
Manu- Really fear the Manu we know and have paid a ton of money for no longer exists...fingers crossed here though
Cilliers- Injured always never seems that great when I have watched him
Joe Ford- Just not good enough unfortunately

Pakalani-unknown due to injury

Leaving-
Brady- average
Williams- poor mans Haskell for me
Hamilton- Decent player but not top class
McGuigan- Never pushed on
Thacker- Very interested to see how he goes at Bristol
Mulipola- Decent but again often injured
Ryan- Hopefully leaving as is average
Malouf- Seemed a good player in the making wish him well
Bauman- Who?
My two biggest quibbles would be May who has earned his salt with 11 tries in 15 games this season and Smith who, as you say, does the job when needed - I think he is underrated by many and probably very good value for his money. One or two of your JO's, I might currently relegate to your NUTS but we can always hope for a turnaround.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by ellis9 » Wed May 02, 2018 12:22 pm

11 tries in 15 matches from May and he is under the jury's out column!

You want your wingers to score tries. Jonny May has done that for us. For me, that puts him under the "worth their bacon" column. Anything less is very harsh.

It's also very harsh to put Manu under the "not up to standard" column. With the amount of injuries he has had, he was never going to be "stand out" this season.

In fact, I don't like the "jury's out" name. It should be "not up to their normal standards". There is no way the jury is out on most of those players, especially Ben Youngs and George Ford who are England's best half backs when in form, both individually and as a pair.

Also, I forgot to say this after the Falcons match as I was feeling so down but isn't it strange how our lineout was poor whilst TPN was playing but suddenly got better when Tom Youngs came on?! People on here keep saying it's poor throwing from Youngs which is the problem! Clearly, like I keep saying, it's a whole lineout problem, not just the thrower.

Leicestertinytiger
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Wed May 02, 2018 3:18 pm

Looking at the leavers list, there is no one there who I’m particularly fussed about going.

McGuigan and Thacker were never going to be happy with being 3rd choice, but aren’t good enough to be in the 23 so fair enough they’re leaving.

Ryan, Baumann and Traynor haven’t really done anything in a Tigers shirt so no reason to keep them here. Brady is an average winger who has hardly played.

Malouf has showed promise but never looked great in defence. Always feel he was overrated by some on this forum.

Hamilton and Williams haven’t been great this season. Hamilton has been the better, and showed good form earlier in the season but for all his hard work is a jack of all trades, master of none. Williams has been really poor, especially in the Worcester home game, needn’t bothered turning up.

Mulipola well has been injured some of the season. Guess time will tell on that decision.

But can anyone blame Tigers with letting these players go. I know some people moan about squad churn but most of those leaving aren’t good enough. By in large it appears their replacements are improvements.

LE18
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by LE18 » Wed May 02, 2018 4:43 pm

Just to add to one of the above statements, the first 3 line out throws by TPN all were overthrown or went wrong.

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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by Coops » Wed May 02, 2018 5:10 pm

LE18 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 4:43 pm
Just to add to one of the above statements, the first 3 line out throws by TPN all were overthrown or went wrong.
Yet on the training park (open day at WR) both TPN and TY's throwing was spot on to the mark.

You can't just blame a poor lineout on the thrower - there are plenty of other elements which can cause it to go wrong - jumpers in the wrong place, lifters not lifting at the right point, call wrong and that's before you factor in the opposition disrupting things.

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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by BFG » Wed May 02, 2018 5:40 pm

Coops wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:10 pm
LE18 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 4:43 pm
Just to add to one of the above statements, the first 3 line out throws by TPN all were overthrown or went wrong.
Yet on the training park (open day at WR) both TPN and TY's throwing was spot on to the mark.

You can't just blame a poor lineout on the thrower - there are plenty of other elements which can cause it to go wrong - jumpers in the wrong place, lifters not lifting at the right point, call wrong and that's before you factor in the opposition disrupting things.
When Thacker first came into the squad his arrows were absolutely superb, source the beginning of some of his throws going wrong and you'll possibly source the issue i.e any change in lifters or jumpers or positioning.
If you can't find a plausible answer then it's pressure built up in my opinion.

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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by strawclearer » Wed May 02, 2018 5:41 pm

Coops wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:10 pm
LE18 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 4:43 pm
Just to add to one of the above statements, the first 3 line out throws by TPN all were overthrown or went wrong.
Yet on the training park (open day at WR) both TPN and TY's throwing was spot on to the mark.

You can't just blame a poor lineout on the thrower - there are plenty of other elements which can cause it to go wrong - jumpers in the wrong place, lifters not lifting at the right point, call wrong and that's before you factor in the opposition disrupting things.
I confess that, having played most of my rugby amongst the 'girls at the back', I'm pretty ignorant of the activities of the Front Row. Indeed, these days, I don't even understand how they talk - never mind play! On winning 'Young Player of the Season' yesterday, Ellis Genge tweeted:

"Thanks to da fandem and all da mandem and how can me figet da gyaldem".

However, I know that 'lifting' is an art in itself and it's a shame that Marcos Ayerza didn't have a little longer to pass on his knowledge since he was one of the very best.......dem!
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
Help save the Oceans - #RefuseTheStraw!

JP14
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by JP14 » Wed May 02, 2018 6:07 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:41 pm
Coops wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:10 pm
LE18 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 4:43 pm
Just to add to one of the above statements, the first 3 line out throws by TPN all were overthrown or went wrong.
Yet on the training park (open day at WR) both TPN and TY's throwing was spot on to the mark.

You can't just blame a poor lineout on the thrower - there are plenty of other elements which can cause it to go wrong - jumpers in the wrong place, lifters not lifting at the right point, call wrong and that's before you factor in the opposition disrupting things.
I confess that, having played most of my rugby amongst the 'girls at the back', I'm pretty ignorant of the activities of the Front Row. Indeed, these days, I don't even understand how they talk - never mind play! On winning 'Young Player of the Season' yesterday, Ellis Genge tweeted:

"Thanks to da fandem and all da mandem and how can me figet da gyaldem".

However, I know that 'lifting' is an art in itself and it's a shame that Marcos Ayerza didn't have a little longer to pass on his knowledge since he was one of the very best.......dem!
Yeah Genge is speaking in what is known as street talk. Basically he's saying "Thanks to all the fanbase and all the players (mandem is a group of a lads) and how can I forget the group of girls (gyaldem)."
Last edited by JP14 on Wed May 02, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

JP14
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by JP14 » Wed May 02, 2018 6:08 pm

In my opinion, Tigers should always train lineouts with another 8 Tigers forwards who should be told to absolutely be as annoying as possible in order to disrupt the lineout. That way, the hookers and lifters are more used to lifting under pressure
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by strawclearer » Wed May 02, 2018 6:34 pm

JP14 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 6:07 pm
strawclearer wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:41 pm
Coops wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 5:10 pm


Yet on the training park (open day at WR) both TPN and TY's throwing was spot on to the mark.

You can't just blame a poor lineout on the thrower - there are plenty of other elements which can cause it to go wrong - jumpers in the wrong place, lifters not lifting at the right point, call wrong and that's before you factor in the opposition disrupting things.
I confess that, having played most of my rugby amongst the 'girls at the back', I'm pretty ignorant of the activities of the Front Row. Indeed, these days, I don't even understand how they talk - never mind play! On winning 'Young Player of the Season' yesterday, Ellis Genge tweeted:

"Thanks to da fandem and all da mandem and how can me figet da gyaldem".

However, I know that 'lifting' is an art in itself and it's a shame that Marcos Ayerza didn't have a little longer to pass on his knowledge since he was one of the very best.......dem!
Yeah Genge is speaking in what is known as street talk. Basically he's saying "Thanks to all the fanbase and all the players (mandem is a group of a lads) and how can I forget the group of girls (gyaldem)."
Fanks, JP bruv. Sorry fer being a total wasteman. Ain't from these ends fam.
(I understood him really!)
:smt043
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
Help save the Oceans - #RefuseTheStraw!

JP14
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Re: Squad Analysis

Post by JP14 » Wed May 02, 2018 6:54 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 6:34 pm
Fanks, JP bruv. Sorry fer being a total wasteman. Ain't from these ends fam.
(I understood him really!)
:smt043
That is one of the most cringiest things ever Strawclearer 😂
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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