Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

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strawclearer
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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by strawclearer » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:33 pm

WhitecapTiger wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:30 pm
Big Dai wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:20 am
The game is degenerating into farce.
James Haskell agrees with you, said almost as much in his post match comments - glad he was 'getting out' following a TMO intervention for one of his tackles denied Wasps a final try (didn't affect the Wasps win).
Guess who disagrees via Twitter?

"Nah @jameshaskell you’re bang out of order for this tackle mate, out of control and wreck less from you."

Ellis Genge
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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by Big Dai » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:50 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:33 pm
WhitecapTiger wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:30 pm
Big Dai wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:20 am
The game is degenerating into farce.
James Haskell agrees with you, said almost as much in his post match comments - glad he was 'getting out' following a TMO intervention for one of his tackles denied Wasps a final try (didn't affect the Wasps win).
Guess who disagrees via Twitter?

"Nah @jameshaskell you’re bang out of order for this tackle mate, out of control and wreck less from you."

Ellis Genge
strawclearer wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:33 pm
WhitecapTiger wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:30 pm
Big Dai wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:20 am
The game is degenerating into farce.
James Haskell agrees with you, said almost as much in his post match comments - glad he was 'getting out' following a TMO intervention for one of his tackles denied Wasps a final try (didn't affect the Wasps win).
Guess who disagrees via Twitter?

"Nah @jameshaskell you’re bang out of order for this tackle mate, out of control and wreck less from you."

Ellis Genge
Before I get taken out of context here my comments referred to incidents involving reviews (or not) of all offences and the behaviour of TMOs, referees and pundits alike. Not specifically those involving Mr Haskell's tackle.

Mr Genge however clearly has a role to play in maritime safety as he seems capable of identifying "wreck less" situations.
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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by BFG » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:51 pm

Wreck less?
Intelligent conversation that, key stage 2 not a requirement on Twitter!
Perhaps a Harbourside saying, or possibly something picked up at the Bristol Bear Bar... :smt047

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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by strawclearer » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:19 pm

BFG wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:51 pm
Wreck less?
Intelligent conversation that, key stage 2 not a requirement on Twitter!
Perhaps a Harbourside saying, or possibly something picked up at the Bristol Bear Bar... :smt047
Yes - I did wonder if I should correct it! I'm sure he simply omitted to check his predictive text - it tap sense to me sump thymes.
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by Big Dai » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:26 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:19 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:51 pm
Wreck less?
Intelligent conversation that, key stage 2 not a requirement on Twitter!
Perhaps a Harbourside saying, or possibly something picked up at the Bristol Bear Bar... :smt047
Yes - I did wonder if I should correct it! I'm sure he simply omitted to check his predictive text - it tap sense to me sump thymes.
I'm a little fairy
I don't swear
Shot, bigger, arsenal.
Predictive text just ruined my poem.

I would like to think a degree of common sense would break out over the TMO. Players baying for replays and appealing for everything just has to stop.

This needs stronger referees and a few more teams marched back 10.
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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by BFG » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:44 pm

Big Dai wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:26 pm
strawclearer wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:19 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:51 pm
Wreck less?
Intelligent conversation that, key stage 2 not a requirement on Twitter!
Perhaps a Harbourside saying, or possibly something picked up at the Bristol Bear Bar... :smt047
Yes - I did wonder if I should correct it! I'm sure he simply omitted to check his predictive text - it tap sense to me sump thymes.
I'm a little fairy
I don't swear
Shot, bigger, arsenal.
Predictive text just ruined my poem.

I would like to think a degree of common sense would break out over the TMO. Players baying for replays and appealing for everything just has to stop.

This needs stronger referees and a few more teams marched back 10.
I'm bored of the TMO now, the officials are still as likely to get the big moments just as wrong even with the aid of replays but are just picking up far too much peripheral stuff.
I found it extremely odd today that Haskell was penalised and a Wasps try denied for a high tackle that really wasn't and yet Waller got away with a penalty only for smacking Robson in the chin/throat with a late challenge.

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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by Tiglon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:08 am

Big Dai wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:20 am
My biggest gripe with premiership rugby is the TMO.

TMO calls are run on an interventionist nature, often after a smart Alec pundit has picked "something" up. Healey is especially annoying at this and I totally understand Neil Back's perspective when he said he took an instant dislike to the bloke because it saved time.

We had two TMO calls, one a knock on, and the last farce when, regardless of offside or not, every one had stopped because sir had blown his whistle. Yesterday Gloucester scored a try off what looked to be a blatant forward pass and Barnsey just puts his hand up and goes "try", No review, no nothing.

Dual standards abound. Tries are being disallowed for offences that occur elsewhere on the pitch with no intervention or punishment. We have laws or we do not have laws. We review decisions, or we do not. Where was the word in the ear that BoC was actually on his feet and was "innocent"? 3 points can change a game just as easily as 5. Get a grip!

The game is degenerating into farce.
I think this is spot on. Those arguing that it's Tigers fault are missing the point - this isn't a complaint that the TMO/ref situation ruined Tigers chances (I'm sure most if not all of us accept that Tigers have not been one of the best 4 teams in the league this season and do not deserve to be in the playoffs), it's a complaint that the TMO/ref situation is ruining the enjoyment of a sport we love(d). I now know that 9 times out of 10 I will be frustrated with the officiating in a game of professional rugby. This isn't just because I'm one-eyed watching a team I support - I watch more games as a neutral simply because I love rugby, and I'm still increasingly frustrated due to games being overly affected by inconsistencies from the officials.

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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by Tiglon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:12 am

Big Dai wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:26 pm
strawclearer wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:19 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:51 pm
Wreck less?
Intelligent conversation that, key stage 2 not a requirement on Twitter!
Perhaps a Harbourside saying, or possibly something picked up at the Bristol Bear Bar... :smt047
Yes - I did wonder if I should correct it! I'm sure he simply omitted to check his predictive text - it tap sense to me sump thymes.
I'm a little fairy
I don't swear
Shot, bigger, arsenal.
Predictive text just ruined my poem.

I would like to think a degree of common sense would break out over the TMO. Players baying for replays and appealing for everything just has to stop.

This needs stronger referees and a few more teams marched back 10.
The refs are too friendly with the players now, all on first name basis, and when they don't know the player's name it's "fella" or "mate".

Marching someone 10 metres for being too mouthy is, sadly, a thing of the past. I can see the reality in the very near future being very similar to football where players surround the ref - by that point it will be too late, we need to address it now. Or a couple of years ago.

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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by daktari » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:19 am

For me it is not that the refs make mistakes during play, frustrating at the time but understandable. It's the blatant not reffing of the match or ignoring obvious infringements. Coming in to the ruck off your feet is just not reffed any more, neither is players not retreating in front of the kicker. One which really get my goat are backs that all step off side at a ruck and all the ref does is tell them to step back - they have already done the damaged and slowed the attacking team down, it should be a penalty and not a coaching opportunity for the ref.

Want to make the scrum stable - try reffing it, stop players binding on the arm - again its obvious!
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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by Chobbsy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:06 am

Tomvarndell wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:57 pm
Make no mistake we were poor. We don't deserve much. However that last decision is a farce. Rugby is a loser for that joke of a decision
It is certainly up there!!!
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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by Tiglon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:23 am

daktari wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:19 am
For me it is not that the refs make mistakes during play, frustrating at the time but understandable. It's the blatant not reffing of the match or ignoring obvious infringements. Coming in to the ruck off your feet is just not reffed any more, neither is players not retreating in front of the kicker. One which really get my goat are backs that all step off side at a ruck and all the ref does is tell them to step back - they have already done the damaged and slowed the attacking team down, it should be a penalty and not a coaching opportunity for the ref.

Want to make the scrum stable - try reffing it, stop players binding on the arm - again its obvious!
More very good points! We can all accept that officials are human and make mistakes, but these things mentioned above regularly infuriate me during rugby matches.

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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by strawclearer » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:50 am

The ref should be allowed to ask the TMO one question only:

"This is my decision. You've got 30 seconds to tell me if I'm about to make a complete a*%e of things!"

The replays should be there to spot - and overcome - the absolute howlers like a player dropping the ball before he touches down for a try. It should not be there to provide forensic analysis of a finger-tip knock-on that may have happened any time in the last 5 minutes.
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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by JackFlashJonny » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:06 am

The sad thing for me is would of Wayne Barnes allowed this try...I would imagine not and the difference in class between Refs is astounding...

I actually think it was a try first off, but due to celebrating and Pearce blowing his whistle Tigers stopped and a split second after the whistle Hogg touches down again

It was clear to all of us it was the second try that was awarded and Pearce's decision was exceptionally poor and leaves sour grapes

But like I said I think the first attempt was a try the camera angles were just not visible so good luck Newcastle and well played

As for Pearce he has shown himself up there completely

Found it odd that BT sport didnt show again with the whistle clearly blowing before grounding and I had to rewind to see for myself :smt017

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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by ourla » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:23 am

I think there are lot of issues getting mixed up together here.

Dealing with this one first: the TMO should have said to Pearce that you have blown your whistle as the player has gone to make the second lunge. It seems to be this is quite clear. I can understand how Pearce may have been unsure about this given the mayhem and situation. The TMO could have been much clearer with him and removed any doubt. It's clear the ref has made the decision that that particular play is over and the game should be stopped, so it matters not if the second lunge resulted in a try or not.

Out of interest on the second lunge. The guy is on the floor and stopped. If he clearly released it and was on his feet then it would be have been a good try. I don't believe he did but any way the point is moot because the ref blew is whistle as he was picking the ball to stop play.

The grounding on the first lunge was in all probability good and if the TMO had been asked "any reason not to award" on that first lunge I am sure he would have said "No" and it would have been given. As it was Pearce I believe said "I have no clear grounding, is a try yes or no?" In which case the answer would have also been "No". Incidentally I believe Pearce did ask the right question. I don't think the refs should work on the probability that it was a try even though they can't see the ball being grounded. If someone wants to change the law so it says that - far enough. But as far as I know if the ball can't be seen it can't be given.

Is the TMO ruining the game: I don't think so. For me it comes down to do we get the correct result or even did the officials get the opportunity to get the result. Sometimes, even after replays decisions are debatable. But I still say it's better than guessing in real time.

Are the officials/TMO's getting things wrong: Well, undoubtedly. But afaik they are constantly assessed, they are the best we've got. Guys like Barnes and Garcia are top notch but can't do every match. I'm all for suggestions for improvement but sometimes they can't win. They are told to engage with the players rather than be too authoritarian but then get told they are too friendly with the players.

Did this decision cost us our position in the play offs? Strictly speaking yes. But no more than Toomua screwing up a 3 on 1 versus Saints or Cole, missing the tackle on Goneva. Coaches and players say it time again, that you need to take the officials out of the equation and not give them the chance to take the game away from you. So IMO we should have no complaints.
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Re: Have we just fallen foul of the worst tmo ever made?

Post by Chobbsy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:28 am

JackFlashJonny wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:06 am
The sad thing for me is would of Wayne Barnes allowed this try...I would imagine not and the difference in class between Refs is astounding...

I actually think it was a try first off, but due to celebrating and Pearce blowing his whistle Tigers stopped and a split second after the whistle Hogg touches down again

It was clear to all of us it was the second try that was awarded and Pearce's decision was exceptionally poor and leaves sour grapes

But like I said I think the first attempt was a try the camera angles were just not visible so good luck Newcastle and well played

As for Pearce he has shown himself up there completely

Found it odd that BT sport didnt show again with the whistle clearly blowing before grounding and I had to rewind to see for myself :smt017
Barnes has already come out and said no try
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