Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

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TTRITH
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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by TTRITH » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:26 am

Robespierre wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:51 am
It seems to me that Tigers are lacking a captain with on the field « presence », to show who’s boss and to ensure that the players remain 100% focused on the game. George Ford, if he was captain, yesterday, does not have those qualities. So who will be captain next season? Sadly, I can’t see anyone who could fit the bill.
Matt Toomua.
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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by jgriffin » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:36 am

mightymouse wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:48 am
Tigers got was deserved. You cannot continuously give the ball away and win a game. We had so much dominance in certain areas of the game, like the scrum and yet we coughed the ball up time and again in the line out, the breakdown and through handling errors. Once again the stats looked in our favour and yet we cannot convert possesion in the 22.
Worst of all is the amount of ball wasted by our international half backs. They squander ball through aimless, woeful kicking. Opposition must love it. It must be like getting a Get Out Of Jail Free card. We are constantly told that our forwards are not good enough, not up to the level of predecessors and yet men like Genge and O'Connor leave their guts out on that pitch and witness the half backs letting them down every game. Yes there are improvements in the 2nd row and back row that could be made but if we cannot win games with the amount of possession that we have had in the last 2 games then there is a serious problem.
We are always concerned that we have players like Tuilagi and May fit and yet they never see the ball so why bother spending all that money on them? Frankly you could play anyone in our outside backs at the moment as long as they can tackle because they are not going to get the ball.
Saves me having to write it. All season this has been the situation - yet the couple of games we have Harrison/Toomua, it doesn't happen, we have a running probing game and look good, releasing the backs at the right time.
For me, Youngs/Ford, for whatever reason, aren't hacking it. Poor coaching and tactics seem to be a major contributory factor and I am still of the opinion (boring as always about MOC, sorry) that a major coaching clearout is needed with Bakewell and Boris to stay. I agree 100% about Genge and BOC, for me BOC was outstanding last night and either he or Toomua should be captain.
I do wonder if the 'senior players' who called for MOC alongside the faction on the BoD are part of the problem.........although Cole's face last night was stone, Lawson seemed to be trying to cheer him up! Genge looked like he could kill, BOC looked very unhappy.
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newport tiger
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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by newport tiger » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:48 am

Whilst i am as disappointed as everyone on her with another lacklustre home defeat maybe its not such a bad thing missing out on the playoffs. The way we are playing at the moment could you honestly see anything other than an embarrassing defeat at Exeter or Sarries. Hopefully we can get ourselves at the top table in Europe for next season then its time for a long hard look at this squad and some tough decisions to be made.

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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by mightymouse » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:51 am

I agree the tactics from coaches may be called into question but I do not buy into the "doing what they are told" argument and never have. If 2 international half backs cannot close out a 10 point advantage with 10 minutes to go and know How to manage that situation then they and only they are to blame.

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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by Grumpy of Crumbie » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:54 am

Yet again many seem to be resorting to half back bashing. For me the difference in the last two games compared to our brief resurgence post Bakewell is that the forwards are back to being bullied. With the exception of the scrum we don't have any sort of solid platform from line out, rolling maul, ball carrying or breakdown. Consequently the backs are trying to play off flat foot ball against a defensive line that hasn't been disrupted in any way by our attack crossing the gain line with any consistency. Kicking the ball away is the inevitable outcome. We improved slightly from the Saints game in that we stopped trying to play open rugby from our own half but even with terroritory we couldn't get any go forward.

Harrison and Toomua looked good because for whatever reason we briefly had a set of forwards who looked like they knew what they were doing.
If you don't go in hard it's not a tackle it's an insult.

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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by manxleigh » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:55 am

Scenes at the end of the game in the changing room said it all. Smiling faces and handshakes f£cheers that get back on the pitch and drill them until they drop and remind them what giving it all means! Biggest problem for me is our inability to turnover ball.

Whether Cole is knackered or just finished I don’t know but he needs to come back snarling like the mini rhino next year. x2Youngs need to go and reinvent as they simply are no longer good enough. No leadership and slow, predictable ball. Ford will be much better with snappy ball.

Well played Falcons by the way! Not the end for us just a moment in time!
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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by TTRITH » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:01 am

jgriffin wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:36 am
Saves me having to write it. All season this has been the situation - yet the couple of games we have Harrison/Toomua, it doesn't happen, we have a running probing game and look good, releasing the backs at the right time.
For me, Youngs/Ford, for whatever reason, aren't hacking it. Poor coaching and tactics seem to be a major contributory factor
They are first choice. That's it. Where is the competition for places?

I don't like putting Toomua at 10, frankly because I don't think we've got any other quality at 12 (Sorry Owen, Tait, Worth). Why aren't we going all out to sign Cipriani or Myler to put actual pressure on Ford in the 10 shirt?

Also have no idea why the decision was made to start Youngs yesterday (Big game, big name, bums on seats - nah I'm just being cynical) when he was clearly not match fit, and Harrison doesn't have the same ooomph off the bench as a pent up Youngs. Same can be said for Cole, who again, looks like a player we are pushing to the absolute limits.
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Grumpy of Crumbie
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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by Grumpy of Crumbie » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:04 am

And sorry but while I'm on my end of season dispondent rant, have a think about this.

How many times do you find yourself out of your seat because of a great Tigers line break or a forward making a 10 metre carry against the number of times you have your head in your hands as the opposition charge through our defensive line?
If you don't go in hard it's not a tackle it's an insult.

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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by kend » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:11 am

mightymouse wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:48 am
Yes there are improvements in the 2nd row and back row that could be made but if we cannot win games with the amount of possession that we have had in the last 2 games then there is a serious problem.
Indeed. Sometimes you lose games you should have won, the bounce of the ball or the conditions go against you; the Saints game is a clear example of that. But to lose two (and 'must win games' at that) in a row is indicative of something. Tigers are missing a few percent from their game; cohesion? confidence? They certainly looked fragile in the final 10. The Tigers side out last night should have beaten that Falcons side, particularly given their injury disruptions on the night. Regardless of the refereeing.

Doubtless MoC's defenders (Kay?) will be talking about the players responsibilities, but coaches pull teams together to perform to their capabilities or beyond. DoR/coaches like Deano, Baxter and, dare I say it, Cockers at Falcons, Exeter and Edinburgh respectively have produced teams that are 'greater than the sum of their parts'. MoC seems to have achieved the opposite at Tigers. It is the coaching. IMHO.

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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by MrPartridge » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:33 am

Some really good points here: aimless kicking, no ability to turn ball over, awful driving mail, Wells should be starting. All valid IMO.

Happy to say we looked better with Toomua at 10 and that sparked our improvement and run of wins. Ford needs to re-assess his game and get some tackling practice in. Worse than poor. We should have stuck with Freddie.

I’d be happy to see MOC go end of season. He clearly can’t get the best out of the squad in a consistent bases. And if Quins let Mark Mapletoft go with their summer re-shuffle I’d be happy to see him coaching our backs. Must admit I know him personally but he’d make us much more creative. Not really been given much to work with over the last few seasons compared to when they won the title.

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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by thebearisstilldeano » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:58 am

As I've said on another thread we need, as a club, to stand back from the immediacy of winning games or even silver ware for a while and reassess what our future is and build with a clear vision in mind - both on and off the pitch.

For me, the problems of player recruitment, retention and selection for games are all to do with the detail. We have lost sight of the bigger picture. Clubs like Exeter have a vision and it drives player recruitment, retention and match-day selection.

As a club we have stumbled through the past four or five seasons with seemingly ad-hoc short term decision making from the very top.

Where is the clarity of vision Mr Cohen?
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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by voice of the crumbie » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:00 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:13 pm
voice of the crumbie wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:16 pm
sapajo wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:46 pm


Struth talk about the kiss of death :smt002
If we lose this I'll be asking the mods to stop Strawclearer from posting match predictions :smt003 .
So will I!
Mods please ban Strawclearer from making predictions!
Tigers for the premiership and European Cup. Get behind the team and make some noise!!

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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by LE18 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:37 pm

Anyone else think like me that Vieanu should be moved back to the wing, clearly he is a non tackling, poor kicking full back. Yes full back gives him more room to run the ball out, but in defence, tackling and kicking are so important for that position and last night he was terrible at doing those 2 things? Regarding Goneva's first score, Cole should have done better, where was our 7, finally made Vienau's effort look pathetic!

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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by strawclearer » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:42 pm

voice of the crumbie wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:00 pm
strawclearer wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:13 pm
voice of the crumbie wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:16 pm


If we lose this I'll be asking the mods to stop Strawclearer from posting match predictions :smt003 .
So will I!
Mods please ban Strawclearer from making predictions!
One more...Matt O'Connor will be here for the next 5 years! (I so want my run of poor predictions to continue! :smt010 )
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Re: Tigers v Newcastle Falcons

Post by sapajo » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:56 pm

LE18 wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:37 pm
Anyone else think like me that Vieanu should be moved back to the wing, clearly he is a non tackling, poor kicking full back. Yes full back gives him more room to run the ball out, but in defence, tackling and kicking are so important for that position and last night he was terrible at doing those 2 things? Regarding Goneva's first score, Cole should have done better, where was our 7, finally made Vienau's effort look pathetic!
I totally agree, but also for the same reasons so should May and Ford who are equally as poor as Vieanu. That said, they can't be moved because unlike Vieanu they cannot play in 2 positions. To much weak or non existing tacklers in the Tigers squad with only Toomua, O'connor and Fitzgerald being the exceptions as opposed to the Falcons where every player tackled to they dropped. Falcons wanted it more and yet again Tigers were complacent and inaccurate.
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