New Tigers

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Rugbyflanker
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Re: New Tigers

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:27 pm

It's not comparable that's why! You've dug yourself a deep hole in your blind faith in George with zero to back it up! At least I'm trying to build a case

ellis9
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Re: New Tigers

Post by ellis9 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:09 pm

No you're saying Ford isn't a very good player. He is. He just isn't at the top of his form. There's a huge difference.

It is comparible. Tigers had the best stats by far yet lost the game. As I said, stats don't tell the whole story. Anyone who understands rugby and sport, understands that.

Rugbyflanker
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Re: New Tigers

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:17 pm

Ford has had two good games this season,Wasps and Newcastle away. I'm not counting the Castres game because that was one of the most pathetic performances I've ever seen from 1-8 at any level and any group of backs would've shined that day. We had 70% possession and territory v Saints and he did nothing apart from one delayed pass to Fitzgerald and one poor attempted break in his own 22 where he slipped. It's not the fist time either,we dominated Sarries scrum at WR and he did nothing in that game either.

fortysix
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Re: New Tigers

Post by fortysix » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:40 pm

In truth, Ford has not progressed at all
In fact if anything, he has digressed, ring-fenced, become more conservative, call it what you will.
Anyone at the Stoop four years ago will remember a performance that still shines to this day, a true show-case of quality , and a beacon of light for Tigers future.
Now he is stymied by his own mentality, its obvious he has a negative mindset about certain aspects of his game, especially his goal kicking ( stats )
He rarely breaks on his own, his accelerative attributes seem dulled, all in all, yes he is a good stand off, a reliable defender, but he hasnt advanced as far as he should have done, and thats an enormous pity.
But he has the true quality to say to himself --------'':censored: it, I'm going to let loose''
Lets hope he does.
In the next 4 matches

Rugbyflanker
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Re: New Tigers

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:43 pm

Spot on 46!

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Re: New Tigers

Post by JP14 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:00 pm

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:17 pm
Ford has had two good games this season,Wasps and Newcastle away. I'm not counting the Castres game because that was one of the most pathetic performances I've ever seen from 1-8 at any level and any group of backs would've shined that day. We had 70% possession and territory v Saints and he did nothing apart from one delayed pass to Fitzgerald and one poor attempted break in his own 22 where he slipped. It's not the fist time either,we dominated Sarries scrum at WR and he did nothing in that game either.
Munster were scrum dominant over Racing today. Was Ian Keatley any good because of it? No. You need to have much more than scrum dominance to thrive apon, breakdown, lineout, gainline breaks etc
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

Rugbyflanker
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Re: New Tigers

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:10 pm

Correct jp,that was just an example. But even with front foot ball he hasn't done much imo. He's certainly nowhere near the player he was the season Bath made the final. Maybe he needs to see a sports phycologist.

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Re: New Tigers

Post by JP14 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:53 am

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:10 pm
Correct jp,that was just an example. But even with front foot ball he hasn't done much imo. He's certainly nowhere near the player he was the season Bath made the final. Maybe he needs to see a sports phycologist.
Or maybe time? 🤔. Against Argentina he was threatening the gainline and scored a magnificent try. He needs to find out what made him do that then and why not now. I’d put that one to Lions disappointment
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

sapajo
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Re: New Tigers

Post by sapajo » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:32 am

The New Tigers still lack any semblance of a regular centre partnership and a kicking game. On a posistive note our forwards are being regenerated post Mauger.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

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Re: New Tigers

Post by BFG » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:12 am

jgriffin wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:25 pm
BFG wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:52 am
I'd go further than the OP on the topic and suggest that it's the new England rugby.
Blown away in Europe, the big clumsy clots have had rings run around them.
Sarries and more recently Exeter have turned the Premiership into a slugfest with some of the least entertaining rugby you could ever wish not to see, but we have seen this year that only goes so far, like a big junior who can't bully the seniors!
I wouldn't agree in part. It's a question of balance in sides and also of the inconsistencies in refereeing. If you are playing in the AP currently, I would agree that the balance has shifted too far from the skills of good back rows and backs in general, and too much towards grinding dominance and territorial rugby. However this is as much a reflection of law interpretation as coaching preference. When you are routinely penalised for fair competition against unfair diving etc, there is little recourse except to duller rugby. When you are used to different interpretations, adjustment is not as easy as glib 'play to the ref' would have it. It doesn't help when a Welsh ref is considered neutral to an Irish side etc.
There is also the issue of attrition - it makes a huge difference to how sides can play if an AP club is up against a Pro14 side that has the funding and the league that can permit players only playing half as many games. This is not my opinion, it has been voiced on TV by DOC, BOD and several others who have experience of both scenarios.
So I would argue, yes you are right in blaming the 'English' game, but there are several factors at work. I worry that MOC may go too far down that road, and that of our two decent 1st team 10s, only one is capable of playing the game required to take us to the top.
The unfair diving at the ruck is my biggest bugbear, and in particular with Exeter the latching on to the ball carrier which amounts to little more than sealing off in most cases.
I think the overplaying issue in comparison to the Pro14 is an English failure, can't blame the Pro14 for doing it much better, the English do have a choice but just refuse to take a chance on it, my opinion is that the English cause their own problems on this issue with the well known flaws in selection for player development such as physical characteristics placed too early above skills and awareness and also the old boys networks watering down the talent pools, if the players were good enough below then those above would be rested more!

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Re: New Tigers

Post by Baz » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:38 am

We are rebuilding the traditional scrum, viz the number of forward signings over the past 18 months; we have good wings and full-back, but where are the centres? The best we have are long-term injured. There seems to be no emphasis on this critical area.
Dan Cole gets mentioned a lot; great in the scrum, but outside it? His idea of tackling is to stand in front of someone. Give him the ball, and he immediately goes to ground. Never made more than a metre in his life.

fortysix
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Re: New Tigers

Post by fortysix » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:48 am

We have been permantly rebuilding for the last 5 years, and always with the overblown idea everything revolves around our great white hope ever returning. Sometimes one has to cut ones losses and move on.....

Having watched some unheard of Fijian yesterday shred Munster to bits, surely but surely our ummm, ''Scout'' or ummm. ''Scouts'' can realise that, if we ever decide to return back to the top table in the Premiership and in Europe ( Ha ha , I hear you say), then a centre partnership, or two, needs putting in place pretty damn quick....

If and when, Toomau gets wounded, to put it bluntly, we are :censored. To expect Catchpole Worth Tait Smith and Owen to break down bridges is taking the mick at the top level ..

MikeR
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Re: New Tigers

Post by MikeR » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:21 pm

Spot on 46 - the back up players you mention are hopelessly inadequate . We seem to be utterly hopeless at bringing through young centres to the 1st Team - the last ones being Manu and BillyT and how many years ago was that .

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Re: New Tigers

Post by TheRock » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:30 pm

fortysix wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:48 am
We have been permantly rebuilding for the last 5 years, and always with the overblown idea everything revolves around our great white hope ever returning. Sometimes one has to cut ones losses and move on.....

Having watched some unheard of Fijian yesterday shred Munster to bits, surely but surely our ummm, ''Scout'' or ummm. ''Scouts'' can realise that, if we ever decide to return back to the top table in the Premiership and in Europe ( Ha ha , I hear you say), then a centre partnership, or two, needs putting in place pretty damn quick....

If and when, Toomau gets wounded, to put it bluntly, we are :censored. To expect Catchpole Worth Tait Smith and Owen to break down bridges is taking the mick at the top level ..
Which unheard of fijian would that be?
Only fijian playing for racing yesterday was Nakarawa and he isn't exactly unheard of.
There is of course Vakatawa who is originally Fijian, but now has 17 caps for France, again not exactly unheard of.
The player who really ripped munster to shreds was Teddy Thomas a French international from Biarritz, again not unheard of and certainly not Fijian.

Rugbyflanker
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Re: New Tigers

Post by Rugbyflanker » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:12 pm

Our scrum is the best in the league imo,destructive at it's best and we got the nudge on Chiefs over the two games in the best AP scrum head to head as it were. But as for lineout? Pfft! Our defending and attacking maul are quite possibly the polar opposite of our scrum and amongst the worse in the AP and that's if we can even catch the ball! I hope MOC has spotted this and it's intensely practiced and fixed over the summer!

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