New Tigers

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1988
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New Tigers

Post by 1988 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:34 pm

We are a new Tigers unfortunately, I want the old back please.

We have a soft under belly, I have no confidence in us delivering a killer blow when the opportunity arrives in a game. Last minute...3 point needed ... ball in hand.... I wouldn’t back this team and I don’t think many of them would back their team mates.

We are a shadow of the great club we once were and I can not see that ever returning with the current owners, board and staff. The winning culture is long gone.

With this said, I can not believe the prices the club expect fans to pay for tickets, surely a few more seasons of this and prices need adjusting to our current league stature 4th-7th range not champions.

What do people think?

Mark62
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Re: New Tigers

Post by Mark62 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:50 pm

Not too sure what you’re talking about, do you have any examples or facts to back your statement, or is it just a gut reaction to last week

1988
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Re: New Tigers

Post by 1988 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:04 pm

It’s a reaction to the last couple of seasons, okay we have a little run of games with the bakewell effect but other than that we have far too many players who are push overs 95% of the time.

Kitchener - no where near to force he should be for his size.
Tuilagi - not worth the money he takes for the games he plays, not his past self
Cole - England front row should be having far bigger presence than he does at club level
Ford - again not good enough when plays for club, should be running the game
Tom Youngs - need resting can not be expected to perform with situation he’s in and is not, ideal replacement on the bench. Maybe an impact sub role for now
Toomoua - far more impact playing at 10, only shifted back out due to ford

1. Shouldn’t have let burns go, esp for ford
2. No idea who though bringing his brother along too was a good idea (ford)
3. Lose too many England players at once now (may, Cole, genge, manu, Young’s, ford) should have used the money to recruit wider a field instead

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Re: New Tigers

Post by ellis9 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:20 pm

1988 wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:04 pm
It’s a reaction to the last couple of seasons, okay we have a little run of games with the bakewell effect but other than that we have far too many players who are push overs 95% of the time.

Kitchener - no where near to force he should be for his size.
Tuilagi - not worth the money he takes for the games he plays, not his past self
Cole - England front row should be having far bigger presence than he does at club level
Ford - again not good enough when plays for club, should be running the game
Tom Youngs - need resting can not be expected to perform with situation he’s in and is not, ideal replacement on the bench. Maybe an impact sub role for now
Toomoua - far more impact playing at 10, only shifted back out due to ford

1. Shouldn’t have let burns go, esp for ford
2. No idea who though bringing his brother along too was a good idea (ford)
3. Lose too many England players at once now (may, Cole, genge, manu, Young’s, ford) should have used the money to recruit wider a field instead
1. Ford is much better than Burns. Correct call was made.

2. Agree. Joe Ford isn't good enough for most Premiership clubs.

3. Other clubs lose more players than us or just as many as us. If you mean we should have signed a higher number of players with their money, then we would have lost quality and then we would be even further down the table.

1988
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Re: New Tigers

Post by 1988 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:32 pm

I think we should have looked abroad eg Australia New Zealand or Pacific islands plenty of gems out there for less money and don’t all disappear for the six nations.

Mark62
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Re: New Tigers

Post by Mark62 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:34 pm

Tuilagi was just starting to find some good form when he picked up an unrelated injury.

Cole is not a dynamic ball carrier, never has been, even when he played 8, never will be. He is still in the top 5 scrummaging tight heads in the northern hemisphere, and suggest you look at the work he does around the ruck and his tackle stats.

Agree mostly with Tom Youngs, some would say he cares too much, but you asked Old or New Tigers, surely it is old fashioned club values that lead the club to support him.

You get your best 15 players on the pitch Toomua and Ford are 2 of our best backs.

Having a number of internationals usually indicates a healthy club. If had spent that money on sub par journey men that would have been wrong.

1988
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Re: New Tigers

Post by 1988 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:19 pm

Some good points yes,

Tuilagi has had so many unrelated injuries it is unreal, as a physio I just can not see it changing. He needs to drop his weight (yes some muscle mass) which will make his collision power less but he is completely in effective if out injured.

I’m not too sure about having the 15 best players on the pitch, it is a team game and certain players play better in combinations hence why the best team wins not just the one with the best player.

Just think Cole could do more, yes he is good but could always improve in parts (yes one of our best players already)

Internationals is great yes, but a portion of the season is without them, so clubs (Newcastle, sale etc) make up ground if we had international players who were not lost to the 6 nations we would be right up there.

Only thoughts

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Re: New Tigers

Post by ellis9 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:21 pm

1988 wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:19 pm
Some good points yes,

Tuilagi has had so many unrelated injuries it is unreal, as a physio I just can not see it changing. He needs to drop his weight (yes some muscle mass) which will make his collision power less but he is completely in effective if out injured.

I’m not too sure about having the 15 best players on the pitch, it is a team game and certain players play better in combinations hence why the best team wins not just the one with the best player.

Just think Cole could do more, yes he is good but could always improve in parts (yes one of our best players already)

Internationals is great yes, but a portion of the season is without them, so clubs (Newcastle, sale etc) make up ground if we had international players who were not lost to the 6 nations we would be right up there.

Only thoughts
We've always had loads of internationals and that didn't stop us being successful.

Spicer
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Re: New Tigers

Post by Spicer » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:28 pm

The successful "old tigers" of the early 2000's were so because of our dominant pack. We don't have the caliber of player in the forwards to be as good.

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Re: New Tigers

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:32 pm

Agree about Toomua at 10,Ford is holding us back as he is England.

ellis9
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Re: New Tigers

Post by ellis9 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:25 pm

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:32 pm
Agree about Toomua at 10,Ford is holding us back as he is England.
Ford wasn't holding back England when they had their 18 match winning streak.

1988
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Re: New Tigers

Post by 1988 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:00 am

Maybe he was, maybe the team were able to still perform well enough even with him in it.
Finally got found out. He is too predictable and penalty kicking has been poor

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Re: New Tigers

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:17 am

Great passer at times,even off the wrong hand,and kicking out of hand can be good too but never bosses a game even when his pack is on top. Offers zero running threat these days with ball in hand so is easy to defend against,he just shovels the ball on. Toomua is a far better 10 and that is fact not opinion ,the stats are there to completely back that up.

ourla
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Re: New Tigers

Post by ourla » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:09 am

1988 wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:34 pm
We are a new Tigers unfortunately, I want the old back please.

We have a soft under belly, I have no confidence in us delivering a killer blow when the opportunity arrives in a game. Last minute...3 point needed ... ball in hand.... I wouldn’t back this team and I don’t think many of them would back their team mates.

We are a shadow of the great club we once were and I can not see that ever returning with the current owners, board and staff. The winning culture is long gone.

With this said, I can not believe the prices the club expect fans to pay for tickets, surely a few more seasons of this and prices need adjusting to our current league stature 4th-7th range not champions.

What do people think?
I don't agree we are a shadow of the club we once were and I think you are a combination of a bit naive and a bit negative and a bit misty over passed glories. That is not to say things are all hunky dory. Being dumped out of the ERC at the group stage and scratching around trying to grab wins at the end of the season to squeeze into the play offs isn't where we want to be. But the support is still good and you have to give the MOC/Bakewell a bit more time. Not that this should be a measure for us but if you look Saints and Quins both Prem winners not so long back, and Bath who were in the FInal, we have not fallen that far down the pecking order. There are some definite encouraging signs. Sarries and Exeter are clearly the two we need to match domestically. And for me that's the first priority. I wouldn't disagree the belief that we are Prem winning side has taken a knock but it's too early, for me at least, that we've joined the group of also rans for the foreseeable future. But underpinning all this is that the competitiveness of the league and the game itself has progressed. It's not as easy as it once was and accepting may help with your expectations.
You're either in or you're out

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Re: New Tigers

Post by JP14 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:57 am

I think this thread is typical of too much reminiscence of the “good old days”. Mark Bakewell says on BT Sport he is trying to help to create a new legacy with the pack. You given some good points, 1988, especially on Tuilagi but unfortunately it’s easier said then done by saying you want the old Tigers back, the current Tigers are moving on.

Be patient and one day you will get reward :smt023
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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