Tigers v Saints predictions

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Soggypitch
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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by Soggypitch » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:44 pm

I also find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with ellis :smt002

After 22 games the top 4 will deserve to be there, no matter how poorly they've played at times on the journey. The league table does not lie at the end of the season.

The comparison with Armstrong is a joke.
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Tiglon
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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by Tiglon » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:55 pm

The comparison with Armstrong is an example of a situation where someone did everything needed to achieve something, yet did not deserve it. Therefore it is perfectly valid, has a point to it, and is not a joke. Of course, you can identify points with which to distinguish it from the Tigers situation, but nonetheless it illustrates the point which it set out to make - you do not always deserve what you get.

The concept of deserving something is subjective, and therefore we are all entitled to our own opinions on whether Tigers deserve to be in the playoffs should they reach them. I understand that being entitled to your own opinion is in itself an unpopular idea on this messageboard, and I fully expect to be told I am undoubtedly still wrong.

As Tolstoy wrote, "People have eternally been mistaken and will be mistaken, and in nothing more than what they consider to be right and wrong".

ellis9
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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by ellis9 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:11 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:55 pm
The comparison with Armstrong is an example of a situation where someone did everything needed to achieve something, yet did not deserve it. Therefore it is perfectly valid, has a point to it, and is not a joke. Of course, you can identify points with which to distinguish it from the Tigers situation, but nonetheless it illustrates the point which it set out to make - you do not always deserve what you get.

The concept of deserving something is subjective, and therefore we are all entitled to our own opinions on whether Tigers deserve to be in the playoffs should they reach them. I understand that being entitled to your own opinion is in itself an unpopular idea on this messageboard, and I fully expect to be told I am undoubtedly still wrong.

As Tolstoy wrote, "People have eternally been mistaken and will be mistaken, and in nothing more than what they consider to be right and wrong".
Who had ever told you that you cannot share your opinion on here?

Yes, I'll tell you I think that you're wrong just as you have just literally done to me and others without saying the words "you're wrong". You are saying Tigers don't deserve a top 4 place and we say you're wrong. We say they do deserve a top 4 spot if we finish there and you're saying we are wrong. I don't mind you saying I am wrong but don't expect me to back down and accept it, just as I don't expect others to back down to their opinions when challenged.

I genuinely worry how some people get on in life if when they have their opinions or ideas challenged, they get all uptight and angry.

If you want to quote someone, so will I:

"The table doesn't lie. We're fourth because we deserve to be fourth."

"I've said the whole season it's about where we sit after Round 22 that's important."

Rugbyflanker
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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by Rugbyflanker » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:23 pm

It's not the being challenged it's the way you do it Ellis,can you not see how you come across at times?

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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by Rugbyflanker » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:23 pm

It's not the being challenged it's the way you do it Ellis,can you not see how you come across at times?

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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by Tiglon » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:27 pm

I would also question your definitions of the words "literally" and "fourth".

I quite literally have not said that you are wrong. I may have implied it, or hinted at it, but I have not literally said it. Apart from the fact that this being a messageboard, you have no idea what I may or may not have said, you really should to look up the definition of "literally".

To me it seems that Tigers are in fact fifth, but maybe you would like to tell me that my counting is wrong too?

It's also customary to credit sources of quotes.

Which of the above would you like to debate further?

ourla
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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by ourla » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:45 pm

I've had this before with ellis. He posts something written as if it were a fact and then later says it's just his opinion.

I can think of some arguments either way: For example reasons we don't deserve to is that we lost several home matches that if we'd played anywhere near our best we would have won. A reason that we do deserve to is that we've astutely brought in Bakewell and turned our forward pack into something worthy of the Tigers shirt to put together a winning run.

All said though it's not a discussion that fuels my interest. If we get fourth it won't delight me. We should be good enough for that anyway. I am more interested in what happens in the semi at Chiefs (the most likely outcome). Losing in semi's has become an unwelcome habit.
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ellis9
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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by ellis9 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:23 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:27 pm
I would also question your definitions of the words "literally" and "fourth".

I quite literally have not said that you are wrong. I may have implied it, or hinted at it, but I have not literally said it. Apart from the fact that this being a messageboard, you have no idea what I may or may not have said, you really should to look up the definition of "literally".

To me it seems that Tigers are in fact fifth, but maybe you would like to tell me that my counting is wrong too?

It's also customary to credit sources of quotes.

Which of the above would you like to debate further?
The quotes were from Richard Cockerill. I know we are not fourth now but you'll notice the important part where it says "because we deserve to be".

I'm just putting a quote up to make my point like you did.

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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by ellis9 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:28 pm

ourla wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:45 pm
I've had this before with ellis. He posts something written as if it were a fact and then later says it's just his opinion.

I can think of some arguments either way: For example reasons we don't deserve to is that we lost several home matches that if we'd played anywhere near our best we would have won. A reason that we do deserve to is that we've astutely brought in Bakewell and turned our forward pack into something worthy of the Tigers shirt to put together a winning run.

All said though it's not a discussion that fuels my interest. If we get fourth it won't delight me. We should be good enough for that anyway. I am more interested in what happens in the semi at Chiefs (the most likely outcome). Losing in semi's has become an unwelcome habit.
If you can't tell the difference between fact and opinion then that's not my fault.

Just because I say to someone that they are wrong and explain why, that doesn't make it a fact, it's just my opinion. I am not going to differentiate them for you and put things like "in my opinion" when it's my opinion and start a fact with the word fact before what I write.

ourla
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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by ourla » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:22 pm

ellis9 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:28 pm
ourla wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:45 pm
I've had this before with ellis. He posts something written as if it were a fact and then later says it's just his opinion.

I can think of some arguments either way: For example reasons we don't deserve to is that we lost several home matches that if we'd played anywhere near our best we would have won. A reason that we do deserve to is that we've astutely brought in Bakewell and turned our forward pack into something worthy of the Tigers shirt to put together a winning run.

All said though it's not a discussion that fuels my interest. If we get fourth it won't delight me. We should be good enough for that anyway. I am more interested in what happens in the semi at Chiefs (the most likely outcome). Losing in semi's has become an unwelcome habit.
If you can't tell the difference between fact and opinion then that's not my fault.

Just because I say to someone that they are wrong and explain why, that doesn't make it a fact, it's just my opinion. I am not going to differentiate them for you and put things like "in my opinion" when it's my opinion and start a fact with the word fact before what I write.
As usual ellis you don't get it. I didn't make the comment for you anyway. Just educating other posters on your ways.
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Tiglon
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Re: Tigers v Saints predictions

Post by Tiglon » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:34 am

ourla wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:22 pm
ellis9 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:28 pm
ourla wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:45 pm
I've had this before with ellis. He posts something written as if it were a fact and then later says it's just his opinion.

I can think of some arguments either way: For example reasons we don't deserve to is that we lost several home matches that if we'd played anywhere near our best we would have won. A reason that we do deserve to is that we've astutely brought in Bakewell and turned our forward pack into something worthy of the Tigers shirt to put together a winning run.

All said though it's not a discussion that fuels my interest. If we get fourth it won't delight me. We should be good enough for that anyway. I am more interested in what happens in the semi at Chiefs (the most likely outcome). Losing in semi's has become an unwelcome habit.
If you can't tell the difference between fact and opinion then that's not my fault.

Just because I say to someone that they are wrong and explain why, that doesn't make it a fact, it's just my opinion. I am not going to differentiate them for you and put things like "in my opinion" when it's my opinion and start a fact with the word fact before what I write.
As usual ellis you don't get it. I didn't make the comment for you anyway. Just educating other posters on your ways.
You've hit the nail on the head, ourla. There are arguments for both opinions. It's a shame other people aren't quite as broad minded, and have to label one side as wrong, and the other as right beyond doubt. In that sense, this messageboard is an accurate reflection of the society that we live in.

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