The Six Nations Thread

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TigerCam
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by TigerCam » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:38 pm

strawclearer wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:18 pm
This is a good time to mention that my adoptive mother's brother's first wife's father played 10 for Tigers and Scotland!

"It’s gaein be awricht ance the pain has gane awa." as Harry Greenlees used to say!
The unfortunate thing for me is that my wife is a true descendant from Robert the Bruce!! That and having Welsh nephews and nieces and Munster heritage it can get a bit feisty in our family!! Well done the Jocks, fully deserved!!

BFG
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by BFG » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:43 pm

Well I thought that England had it coming for a while to be honest, the results have been good but the performances far from it!
England contain opposition and play by numbers and that is about it!
Scotland's intensity always had the potential to turn England over if they were accurate enough, just like Wales and the Aussies at crunch time in the World Cup back in 2015!
Jones hasn't changed much since then, same old England, now left relying on a fit Billy V to rescue them enough to bully it in my opinion!
Ref was no different to any other game in my opinion, technically very correct but at the same time selective in the timing of the whistle blowing!

Dr H Flashman MBE
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Dr H Flashman MBE » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:48 pm

England looked very complacent. It was almost as if they had read all the media hype and only had to pitch up and then onto Paris. There was a lack of intensity but Scotland deserved it. Great win for them. My only gripe was the booing of Farrell when kicking. Not on.
The ref was fair and had no bearing on the result.
There is never any points for 2nd place...

Leicestertinytiger
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Leicestertinytiger » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:52 pm

England have not turned over night into a bad team. The loss in the long term is probably a good thing as we can learn lots of lessons from it.

1) we have 4 world class locks, but that does not mean we have to shoe horn them all into the 23. Pick 2 locks in the second row, 1 on the bench and sadly one has to miss out. We looked so much better with a proper back row unit on the pitch.

2) Robson needs to come in now and deserves his chance at this level. Care is a good player, but lacks the intelligence to manage a game from the start.

3) we need to stick with a back 3 of Watson, Nowell and Daly as he is back from injury. May is a quality stand in but Brown looks past it. Nowell is too good to leave on the bench and has to start.

Stephen18
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Stephen18 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:29 pm

Leicestertinytiger wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:52 pm
England have not turned over night into a bad team. The loss in the long term is probably a good thing as we can learn lots of lessons from it.

1) we have 4 world class locks, but that does not mean we have to shoe horn them all into the 23. Pick 2 locks in the second row, 1 on the bench and sadly one has to miss out. We looked so much better with a proper back row unit on the pitch.

2) Robson needs to come in now and deserves his chance at this level. Care is a good player, but lacks the intelligence to manage a game from the start.

3) we need to stick with a back 3 of Watson, Nowell and Daly as he is back from injury. May is a quality stand in but Brown looks past it. Nowell is too good to leave on the bench and has to start.
Agree with most of this but i think may isca world class wing, just had a bad game today along with every other england player, i think daly deserves a chance at thirteen Joseph hasnt locked it down daly is as fast, with better skill set and defence and teo is a good twelve but not a good 13 and getting on.

Uhtred
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Uhtred » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:19 pm

My personal opinion? No excuse for a loss by a side aiming to be the best in the world. Poor breakdown work by a side shy of specialists in that area proved costly and trying to force all the best locks onto the pitch can't be the way forwards. Owens didn't help matters but when does he ever? If we want to be the world's best we have to overcome him as much as the 15 against us.

That said, here are some stats worth discussing:


6 Nations win rate of Celtic Nations* vs. England/France 2008-present:

Win: 33%
Loss: 61%

With a Celtic ref:

Win: 33%
Loss: 66%

With Nigel Owens as ref:

Win: 50%
Loss 50%

All data sourced from sixnationsrugby.com except for the results from the 2014 season which was sourced from Wikipedia.

*Excluding matches involving Wales due to Owens being unable to officiate these fixtures.

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Re: The Six Nations Threa

Post by Greenwhiteandred » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:00 pm

How many turnovers , how many penalties at ruck time , not enough bodies in the ruck. Scotland came to compete at the ruck , we didn’t realise/adapt other than the last 10 minutes just poor tactics which the coach has to take some responsibility for - would have expected a more significant change in ruck tactics at half time as it seemed obvious that was the issue but first 5 mins , despite the try , we blew an opportunity prior to that because the Scots counter rucked 5 metres from their line. How dumb. 2nd best team in the world by default

fleabane
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by fleabane » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:40 pm

Don’t blame Owens. The loss was England’s alone, beaten by a more committed opposition which didn’t give away penalties and scrums as though they were going out of fashion. Good result.
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Wayne Richardson Fan Club
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:30 am

Really good game, if not necessarily high quality.
Owens refs the same every game, not always to the letter of the law, but in the spirit, its no coincidence that the bed International Games have him as ref.
Not quite Clive Norling & play on, play on but no one anywhere as good as NO at present.
England got found out with their daft back row selection.
Oh & well done Tigers Graduate Hamish Watson
To win is not as important as playing with style!

JP14
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by JP14 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:36 am

Does anyone else think that Jonathan Joseph should be dropped from the 23 entirely, added nothing to game yesterday, whatsoever didn’t run at pace and often pratted around instead of playing the ball out-wide.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

JP14
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by JP14 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:36 am

I thought Nathan Hughes had a good game initially but was caught out slightly in defence.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

strawclearer
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by strawclearer » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:53 am

JP14 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:36 am
I thought Nathan Hughes had a good game initially but was caught out slightly in defence.
Agreed - whereas the Scots won it with their very strong defiance!
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by Robespierre » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:09 am

Proud Eddie's army well and truly sent home tae think again! But what changes will he make for the French? Will Simmons and Daly be fit for selection? Dare he drop Hartley and Cole (I'm whispering as to not upset a few of you!) Sadly, changes are likely to be minimal with the old guard given the opportunity to have another go!
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G.K
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by G.K » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:55 am

Don't know about proud - I didn't see much pride in the white Jersey out there. Well done to the Sweaties but England were simply awful. I had a feeling the wheels were going to fall off the EJ chariot this year, the writing was on the wall in the Wales match.

Too many players just there to collect a pay cheque and need to be dropped, Mako (too fat and not fit enough) and Dullan (simply not good enough)for a start. No decent breakdown operators in white shirts, Barclay had a field day on turnovers. Farrell tackles like a girl and Hughes was not ready for a match at this level. Robshaw at 7 is a joke, 6 maybe but never 7.

TBH I can't see this team winning in Paris.
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.

sam16111986
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Re: The Six Nations Thread

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:24 am

G.K wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:55 am
Don't know about proud - I didn't see much pride in the white Jersey out there. Well done to the Sweaties but England were simply awful. I had a feeling the wheels were going to fall off the EJ chariot this year, the writing was on the wall in the Wales match.

Too many players just there to collect a pay cheque and need to be dropped, Mako (too fat and not fit enough) and Dullan (simply not good enough)for a start. No decent breakdown operators in white shirts, Barclay had a field day on turnovers. Farrell tackles like a girl and Hughes was not ready for a match at this level. Robshaw at 7 is a joke, 6 maybe but never 7.

TBH I can't see this team winning in Paris.
The French are in disarray we'll win there. The problem will be when the Irish rock up. They will get a record win at Twickenham if we don't wise up.

Three second rows doesn't work against mobile backrows. We've seen it here at Tigers and England should have learned that lesson after the Wales game. We need some explosive dyancism in that pack or it'll get ugly quickly.

Brown and Watson struggled all day in defence as the Scots exploited Watson's one on one tackling and Brown's poor tactical kicking and lack of mobility. We also saw England badly missing Ben, Care doesn't offer the same tactical control at 9 and we didn't have enough explosive talent for him to spark off.

We'll need to change up so it'll be interesting to see what Eddie does now to change things.

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