Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

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ourla
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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by ourla » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:51 pm

westwinds31 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:29 pm
Parling and Salvi, I think were on "the turn" when they left Tigers, but Baxter managed to eek out a couple of years of their best form. Two classic examples of taking "average" players and improving them....Woodburn and Jonny Hill, both reasonable players but since joining Chiefs, have become first choice players.
Again though I think we are forgetting Burns, Genge, Owen Williams, Bateman, McAffrey, Vieanu, Thompstone and so on, who have all done very well for us.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by Roly » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:42 am

westwinds31 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:29 pm

Parling and Salvi, I think were on "the turn" when they left Tigers, but Baxter managed to eek out a couple of years of their best form. Two classic examples of taking "average" players and improving them....Woodburn and Jonny Hill, both reasonable players but since joining Chiefs, have become first choice players.
Apparently, according to some (no names, no pack drill), Tommy the Tank wasn't that good either, and didn't fit in with Tigers' game plan anyway.

Chortle
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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by 4071 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:24 pm

ourla wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:25 pm
I think the old Tigers had longetivity which is something clubs like Quins and Saints haven't been able to match. The new Wasps still haven't won anything. Saracens have/are coming close to the old Tigers. Chiefs, I am not sure yet. There has been a slow but steady claim, and they've got the Prem prize bagged. But I think I'm right in saying they have an ageing squad and I'm going to wait and see if they have longetivity and/or go big in Europe. It's hard dislike them though and I'm certainly not looking to burst their bubble.
Apart from the apparently irreplaceable Steenson and the evergreen Dollman, their older guys are already being slowly replaced.

There's a handful of gnarly old vets - the likes of Rimmer, Low, Holmes, Taione, Waldrom, Salvi and Horstmann are all in their mid-30s - but if you were to name a first-choice Exeter matchday squad then not many of those guys would make it.

They still have first-choice guys who have recently hit their 30s - Lees, Armand, Whitten, Turner for example - but they have already brought through replacements for the older men.

Prop: Moon, Williams, Hepburn, Francis (aged 25-29)
Hooker: Cowan-Dickie, Yeandle (25-29)
Lock: Lees, Hill, Skinner, Atkins (22-30)
Back-row: Armand, Kvesic, Simmonds, Ewers (23-30) plus Waldrom (leaving at the end of the season)
Scrum-half: White, Chudley (27-30) backed up by Townsend, Maunder (20-22)
Fly-half: Steenson (this is probably their weak spot going forward - he has resisted all efforts to replace him and is still key at 35)
Centre: Slade, Hill, Devoto, Campagnaro (24-25) plus Whitten (still first choice centre/wing at 31)
Back-three: Woodburn, Nowell, Short, Turner (25-30) plus Dollman (still a regular at 33)

Even including the ancient Waldrom and Steenson you could easily put together what would still look like a full-strength matchday squad with an average age of around 27.

They are managing the transition well in almost all positions.

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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by jgriffin » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:27 pm

Roly wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:42 am
westwinds31 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:29 pm

Parling and Salvi, I think were on "the turn" when they left Tigers, but Baxter managed to eek out a couple of years of their best form. Two classic examples of taking "average" players and improving them....Woodburn and Jonny Hill, both reasonable players but since joining Chiefs, have become first choice players.
Apparently, according to some (no names, no pack drill), Tommy the Tank wasn't that good either, and didn't fit in with Tigers' game plan anyway.

Chortle
OK do you mean me? My info comes from inside Chiefs and from fans including my brother. TTTE was a lazy poacher at Tigers and started that way at Chiefs until he was brought up short following 'discussions'. Thereafter his work ethic FOR THE TEAM improved. The fault at Tigers was his and Cockers for not kicking his butt hard enough or sacking him. Your typically lazy snipe is nothing more - TTTE has since been very effective for Chiefs but on the back of hard work by players like Armand, and if you followed them you would know that the poacher role has been recarved largely for LCD apart from when injured.
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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by westwinds31 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:06 am

ourla wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:51 pm
westwinds31 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:29 pm
Parling and Salvi, I think were on "the turn" when they left Tigers, but Baxter managed to eek out a couple of years of their best form. Two classic examples of taking "average" players and improving them....Woodburn and Jonny Hill, both reasonable players but since joining Chiefs, have become first choice players.
Again though I think we are forgetting Burns, Genge, Owen Williams, Bateman, McAffrey, Vieanu, Thompstone and so on, who have all done very well for us.
Very true....and you’d have thought Williams and Burns would have kicked on, but they’re not first choice at Bath/Glaws.

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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by JP14 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:37 am

Williams is 1st choice at Gloucester it’s just he has been injured and away with Wales.

Burns on the other hand is definitely 2nd choice and I’m hoping he will do a Goodey and come back to us
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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by BFG » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:40 am

I don't think Waldrom is that good either, finds it difficult to break the gain line in midfield himself unless he has a mismatch and in fact is not much different to Kalamafoni in that regard, but Exeter have used what he is good at quite well around the rest of that pack so fair play to them thus far.
There is a need for finishers, Waldrom has provided plenty of that!
I don't think Leicester currently have the pack for a player like Waldrom to do what he is good at!
I don't think LCD alone is their new poacher on Waldrom's level though, I think Exeter are building a better team ethic in that regard, Simmons also crosses regularly, Armand and Ewers are starting to cross the line a bit because the likes of LCD and Simmons add more work elsewhere.
Not forgetting the props and locks who provide a great amount of grunt and recycling work for the back row to finish!
Exeter are a very good team in my opinion and getting better!

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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by Roly » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:50 am

jgriffin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:27 pm
Roly wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:42 am
westwinds31 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:29 pm

Parling and Salvi, I think were on "the turn" when they left Tigers, but Baxter managed to eek out a couple of years of their best form. Two classic examples of taking "average" players and improving them....Woodburn and Jonny Hill, both reasonable players but since joining Chiefs, have become first choice players.
Apparently, according to some (no names, no pack drill), Tommy the Tank wasn't that good either, and didn't fit in with Tigers' game plan anyway.

Chortle
OK do you mean me?
Not particularly, but hey, if the cap fits.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by Phil B » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:48 pm

Roly wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:47 am

My other half was at the Chiefs v Tigers game on New Years Eve. As a club member she had good access to the players post match - talking to TTTE, she asked him how we was liking it at Chiefs - he said he loves it, the club, the ethos, everything (although there are rumours he will be moving back to NZ at the end of his contract). When asked about whether the win was all the more sweeter because it was against Tigers, he said, "you'd better believe it, this club is the complete opposite to Leicester".

There you go.
It's been bothering me for a while - what on earth does he mean when he is quoted as saying "you'd better believe it, this club is the complete opposite to Leicester"?

As Exeter are recent Champions, and we are not, his views are important (to me!). Any knowledge, or guesses as to what he is alluding to?
I could agree with you...but then we'd both be wrong.

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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by Roly » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:04 pm

Phil B wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:48 pm
Roly wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:47 am

My other half was at the Chiefs v Tigers game on New Years Eve. As a club member she had good access to the players post match - talking to TTTE, she asked him how we was liking it at Chiefs - he said he loves it, the club, the ethos, everything (although there are rumours he will be moving back to NZ at the end of his contract). When asked about whether the win was all the more sweeter because it was against Tigers, he said, "you'd better believe it, this club is the complete opposite to Leicester".

There you go.
It's been bothering me for a while - what on earth does he mean when he is quoted as saying "you'd better believe it, this club is the complete opposite to Leicester"?

As Exeter are recent Champions, and we are not, his views are important (to me!). Any knowledge, or guesses as to what he is alluding to?
I wasn't there and have no idea, but you'd have to assume it was the whole thing, management, coaching, ethos, winning.....
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by mol2 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:29 pm

jgriffin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:27 pm
OK do you mean me? My info comes from inside Chiefs and from fans including my brother. TTTE was a lazy poacher at Tigers and started that way at Chiefs until he was brought up short following 'discussions'. Thereafter his work ethic FOR THE TEAM improved. The fault at Tigers was his and Cockers for not kicking his butt hard enough or sacking him.
Or was it that his face didn’t fit when he opted to play for England? Funny that in spite of being a lazy poacher his performances on the pitch for Tigers earned him an international call up.

Or was it that he just wasn’t Jordan Crane? Strange that being treated as a bench 6/8 when frankly pretty ordinary players playing ahead of him would be pretty demotivating. Is that laziness or acceptance that you have been sidelined by your club?

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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by ourla » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:44 pm

Interesting to hear Jim Hamilton on the Rugby Pod casting some doubts on whether Saracens have the strength in depth they have in recent seasons. Also that he was surprised by McCall's reaction to recent setbacks. Bearing in mind he is very pro his former club it's an interesting viewpoint. Not that it's going to help us right now unless we get our act together. Might help the Chiefs mind (trying desperately to steer back on topic).
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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by Roly » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:11 pm

mol2 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:29 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:27 pm
OK do you mean me? My info comes from inside Chiefs and from fans including my brother. TTTE was a lazy poacher at Tigers and started that way at Chiefs until he was brought up short following 'discussions'. Thereafter his work ethic FOR THE TEAM improved. The fault at Tigers was his and Cockers for not kicking his butt hard enough or sacking him.
Or was it that his face didn’t fit when he opted to play for England? Funny that in spite of being a lazy poacher his performances on the pitch for Tigers earned him an international call up.

Or was it that he just wasn’t Jordan Crane? Strange that being treated as a bench 6/8 when frankly pretty ordinary players playing ahead of him would be pretty demotivating. Is that laziness or acceptance that you have been sidelined by your club?
I must admit, its taken me since 0745 this morning to stop laughing over the 'lazy poacher' implication.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by LE18 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:23 pm

Would anyone fancy sitting on a bench when Crane was automatically being selected in front of you? :smt044

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Re: Exeter Chiefs the new (old?) Tigers?

Post by Crumblies » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:46 pm

mol2 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:29 pm
jgriffin wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:27 pm
OK do you mean me? My info comes from inside Chiefs and from fans including my brother. TTTE was a lazy poacher at Tigers and started that way at Chiefs until he was brought up short following 'discussions'. Thereafter his work ethic FOR THE TEAM improved. The fault at Tigers was his and Cockers for not kicking his butt hard enough or sacking him.
Or was it that his face didn’t fit when he opted to play for England? Funny that in spite of being a lazy poacher his performances on the pitch for Tigers earned him an international call up.

Or was it that he just wasn’t Jordan Crane? Strange that being treated as a bench 6/8 when frankly pretty ordinary players playing ahead of him would be pretty demotivating. Is that laziness or acceptance that you have been sidelined by your club?
IMHO and from my recollection of history it was because a certain DOR decided to throw a wobbly and be downright vindictive when Waldrum declared his availability for England. This was a prime example in my view of why he should never have had the DOR role. If his view was that Tigers had recruited TTE from NZ because he wasn’t going to gain international honours with the All Blacks, only for him to go missing with England for much of the Season, then fine, come right out and say so and move him on. But to ostracise the bloke, tie him to a contract and stick him on the bench for a season and a half behind Jordan Crane, was just petty and vindictive and not worthy of a DOR, and not likely to win him or the club respect amongst other players. Another thing we are probably paying for now.

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