O'Connor Interview

[1988]

Relieved to actually read this. At least he actually recognises what we are all saying. Maybe by next season if these pack signings are made we will see where we are. Give him the season and summer to put his side in place and then judge him. I guess this actually is a 'transitional' season!.


“We’re probably a little bit underpowered in the forwards at the moment and I think we need to address that. We probably need a little bit more bulk,” admitted O’Connor.

“The front rowers are exceptional – as good as anywhere in Europe – but behind that we probably a bit more depth through that back five.

“I think we’re a better squad than last season – we set up better to win big games – but this season been nowhere near good enough with the expectation that goes with Tigers and what we want to achieve as a club. There’s a lot of good conversations going on at the moment and by the time we get to September we’ll certainly have a squad capable of competing at the top table in the Premiership and Europe.

“With the addition of two or three more I think we’ll be there or thereabouts.”

[jgriffin]

Not rocket science, but neither is the realisation that we need proper 7s despite many thinking the new'interpretation' (aka attacking side free-for-all) means defence is limited in challenging the breakdown. Hiring big lumps is not the same as athletic 8s, aggressive locks etc.
I am more concerned with the old O'Connor 'spread it to the wings' attack philosophy that negates having excellent 9/10/12/13.

[1988]

yes, doesn't mean I think he is the right man for the job at all. however he is in the job and in charge of our beloved Tigers, therefore I am relived that he is at least acknowledging what we are all saying. Instead of carrying on blindly.

[Flash]

he is at least acknowledging what we are all saying but still carrying on blindly.

Fixed it for you

[Tiger93]

'2 or 3'. Good god it will take more than that in the back row alone. 2 locks + quality props. Just look at the depth Exeter and Sarries have in their forwards compared to ours.

[Flash]

It's only when you get down to third/forth choice where prop quality drops off. We need future planning there but it's 4-6 + 8 that needs concentrating on. (I think boc and evans have 7 covered imo)

[strawclearer]

It's only when you get down to third/forth choice where prop quality drops off. We need future planning there but it's 4-6 + 8 that needs concentrating on. (I think boc and evans have 7 covered imo)

Agreed. Kalamafoni is a 6 for me so 4,5 and 8 are the most critical. I'd start BO'C or Evans every game.

[Tiger93]

After Cole theres a massive drop at Tighthead. After Mulipola and Genge theres another big drop at Loose. Bateman is brilliant around the park but yet to be convinced at scrum time. Cilliers is always injured. God knows whats going on with Rizzo.

[Grimlish]

Sometimes I like to leaven my taste for argument with a few 'facts' and being sceptical about the whole 'we've recruited lightweights in the forwards and are losing the breakdown as a result' argument thought I'd check out what the available evidence might tell us. So, I've spent far too long this pm trawling the squad lists for Sarries, Chiefs, Wasps and ourselves to look at what they tell us about the known 'facts' about our pack. I've taken the groups of players in a squad as this is as much about recruitment policy as anything and as that minimises the impact of the outliers - Skelton at 140kg anyone, Billy V at 130kg? I had to rule out all the Chiefs development players who are listed with their main squad (a debate for another time perhaps), making some judgements about that. There's also clear scope for Clubs to brag.....

So this is what I found

1) As a whole our pack is on average 3.5kg (8lbs) lighter than Chiefs, 4.5kg lighter than Wasps, and 5.7kg (12.5 lbs) lighter than Sarries

2) Our locks however are second only to Wasps in weight, and have the highest BMI ratio (they're neither tallest or shortest). I was thinking of BMI as like a power to weight ratio, if you see what I mean.

3) Our Back 5 are the lightest by some 2.74kg (6lb) and lighter than Sarries by 6.74kg (15lbs)

Since the differential isn't with our locks its the back row where the key difference lies. Yet its not all about numbers - Hamilton is light (well on these numbers, has he bulked up while he's been with us and that's not in the website figures?). Yet he's in the top 3 of the poll for best back rowers. The same applies to Kalamafoni to a lesser extent.

Sadly I now have a spreadsheet with all the data on it which I'll happily share - just pm me if you are interested.

[Soggypitch]

Sorry Grimlish I'm not. The only stats that matter are those I see on the pitch and they are poor at the breakdown/collision time, with us playing far too much rugby on the back foot.

We simply don't have enough power and go forward (ball carriers), I don't care what their weight/BMI is, I want to see hard yards!!

[TigerCam]

Weight and BMI etc etc are no excuse for poor handling skills, the inability to execute the 'offload' at the right time, to wander around the paddock seemingly without aim or conviction, spending too long on the ground (being lighter, should be quicker than a heavier player maybe?) poor execution at the line-out and maul etc etc etc.

[mol2]

Sometimes I like to leaven my taste for argument with a few 'facts' and being sceptical about the whole 'we've recruited lightweights in the forwards and are losing the breakdown as a result' argument thought I'd check out what the available evidence might tell us. So, I've spent far too long this pm trawling the squad lists for Sarries, Chiefs, Wasps and ourselves to look at what they tell us about the known 'facts' about our pack. I've taken the groups of players in a squad as this is as much about recruitment policy as anything and as that minimises the impact of the outliers - Skelton at 140kg anyone, Billy V at 130kg? I had to rule out all the Chiefs development players who are listed with their main squad (a debate for another time perhaps), making some judgements about that. There's also clear scope for Clubs to brag.....

So this is what I found

1) As a whole our pack is on average 3.5kg (8lbs) lighter than Chiefs, 4.5kg lighter than Wasps, and 5.7kg (12.5 lbs) lighter than Sarries

2) Our locks however are second only to Wasps in weight, and have the highest BMI ratio (they're neither tallest or shortest). I was thinking of BMI as like a power to weight ratio, if you see what I mean.

3) Our Back 5 are the lightest by some 2.74kg (6lb) and lighter than Sarries by 6.74kg (15lbs)

Since the differential isn't with our locks its the back row where the key difference lies. Yet its not all about numbers - Hamilton is light (well on these numbers, has he bulked up while he's been with us and that's not in the website figures?). Yet he's in the top 3 of the poll for best back rowers. The same applies to Kalamafoni to a lesser extent.

Sadly I now have a spreadsheet with all the data on it which I'll happily share - just pm me if you are interested.

And when did we see Kitchener or Fitz busting through a tackle?
It’s not just size, our forwards are undynamic, technically deficient and were overpowered by most of the premiership sides.

If that’s only just apparent to our DOR ........

[fleabane]

In reference to his interview, I could have provided that analysis! That is not to say that I am the right person to lead the club forward.

For the sake of honesty, I can’t do the job.

I don’t believe he can either.

[ellis9]

Sometimes I like to leaven my taste for argument with a few 'facts' and being sceptical about the whole 'we've recruited lightweights in the forwards and are losing the breakdown as a result' argument thought I'd check out what the available evidence might tell us. So, I've spent far too long this pm trawling the squad lists for Sarries, Chiefs, Wasps and ourselves to look at what they tell us about the known 'facts' about our pack. I've taken the groups of players in a squad as this is as much about recruitment policy as anything and as that minimises the impact of the outliers - Skelton at 140kg anyone, Billy V at 130kg? I had to rule out all the Chiefs development players who are listed with their main squad (a debate for another time perhaps), making some judgements about that. There's also clear scope for Clubs to brag.....

So this is what I found

1) As a whole our pack is on average 3.5kg (8lbs) lighter than Chiefs, 4.5kg lighter than Wasps, and 5.7kg (12.5 lbs) lighter than Sarries

2) Our locks however are second only to Wasps in weight, and have the highest BMI ratio (they're neither tallest or shortest). I was thinking of BMI as like a power to weight ratio, if you see what I mean.

3) Our Back 5 are the lightest by some 2.74kg (6lb) and lighter than Sarries by 6.74kg (15lbs)

Since the differential isn't with our locks its the back row where the key difference lies. Yet its not all about numbers - Hamilton is light (well on these numbers, has he bulked up while he's been with us and that's not in the website figures?). Yet he's in the top 3 of the poll for best back rowers. The same applies to Kalamafoni to a lesser extent.

Sadly I now have a spreadsheet with all the data on it which I'll happily share - just pm me if you are interested.

And when did we see Kitchener or Fitz busting through a tackle?
It’s not just size, our forwards are undynamic, technically deficient and were overpowered by most of the premiership sides.

If that’s only just apparent to our DOR ........

What DOR? O'Connor is the Head Coach.

[chappie]

Just been reading through this thread and I would like to add a couple of points of view.
1: The game has gone backwards in time regarding the back three, some 15-20 years ago the back rows we’re huge, it’s just funny how things come round full circle.
2: Read what you like into weight and BMI , but at then end of the day scrummaging is not down to weight and size, it’s all about technique, just think back to the team of the late 90’s and upto around 2003, in comparison those packs were a lot smaller in size and weight but hell you never saw them go backwards in a scrum.