Castres vs Tigers

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Rizzo, Tigerbeat, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Post Reply
Tiger_in_Birmingham
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1700
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:55 pm
Location: Birmingham / Bangor Uni

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Tiger_in_Birmingham » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:32 am

kpj tiger wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:01 pm
baz1664 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:57 pm
Hang on a minute, Thompstone gets clearly hit to the head and the ref ignores it after seeing the TMO?!
To be fair there was nothing in it but under modern laws it could have easily been yellow or red
Agreed a couple of years ago it would be nothing and sorted out in the bottom of the next ruck.

It was definitely striking, and questionable whether direct the head or hit the shoulder and then the head. Definite yellow maybe a red based on the law book. Yesterday's ref & TMO - scrum white :smt017

DeadlyDunc
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:05 pm

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by DeadlyDunc » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:50 am

I actually thought we broke the gain line with regularity throughout the game but a combination of poor decisions, poor skills and handling & the now expected disaster at the line out meant that every time we came out of their 22 with nothing.

Plusses - Bateman, Wells, Evans + Simmonds & TPN came on & made an impact,
Negatives - the majority and, unfortunately, what is becoming the usual butchering of opportunities and poor defence

A good example of the difference in the teams was in the first half (around 30mins?) when we had just had an attacking position and chance to score but they won a turnover & kicked into space to Brady who for reasons only known to himself kicked it straight to their full back & 30 secs later they'd scored their 2nd try. It was an awful awful kick and the score went from potentially 13-7 I think to 20-0.

We then butchered around 4-5 chances before half time from penalties, 5m attacking line outs etc which wouldn't have changed the result.

The biggest issue was Joe Ford who seemingly can't kick out of hand and push us around the park like he needs to and basically ships the ball on as quickly as possible to whoever is nearest when we are attacking. I don't doubt he looked like a top end Championship player last season and potentially able to cover GF in the Premiership but thats not been the case and the jump to Champions Cup is just too much for him. Hardwick is a better option for the rest of the season as he MAY be able to develop given a chance or two.

Not his fault I hasten to add but indicative of poor recruitment and seemingly reflective of a "get George Ford" mentality without thinking about the quality of the back up.

Finally, the problem we now have is that MOC knows he has to finish in the Top 6 so he will be even more risk adverse & will be even more reluctant to give the likes of Evans, Hardwick (as a replacement), Simmonds etc further game time.

Scrum
New Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:06 pm

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Scrum » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:31 am

Lot of ideas here about change. Management, coaches, DOR, and players. Someof which, seems more than justified from a supporters view point.
My question is who is available, for any of these positions in mid season? It’s all very well having a clear out, but people have to be found immediately to replace them.
I’ve renewed my ticket, but I am not enjoying the spectacle, it’s not even a blip, but a seemingly deadly decline.
As the people over the road say “keep the faith” All we fans can do really.

Not a jock
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Bennachie

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Not a jock » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:46 pm

According to the stats on the ESPN website Tigers had much the better of possession and territory but unfortunately that's where the good news ends. On just about every other metric they were second best eg turnovers, meters made, percentage tackles made, off-loads etc. Could it be we need better skills' coaches, not more ballast?
http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats? ... gue=271937

Roly
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2351
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:02 pm

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Roly » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:57 pm

Not a jock wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:46 pm
According to the stats on the ESPN website Tigers had much the better of possession and territory but unfortunately that's where the good news ends. On just about every other metric they were second best eg turnovers, meters made, percentage tackles made, off-loads etc. Could it be we need better skills' coaches, not more ballast?
http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats? ... gue=271937
The whole team were clueless, and that's a special skill you can only achieve with the worst possible recruitment.

It cemented just how bad they are when camped on the opposition try line, with the opposition down to 14 men, they turn it over and lose 40 meters. They couldn't score in the proverbial establishment. The other one that stood out for me was when Worth (I think it was) took the ball in acres of space 15 meters out on the right wing, all he had to do was put his head down and run, he was in. He didn't he hesitated momentarily - this was sort of reinforced for me by what (I assume) was one of his own team on the sideline screaming, "Go for the F**king corner!) - clearly heard on camera and as a consequence he was tackled short of scoring. Harrison was clueless, the line-out still doesn't work, the pack is made of cheese and the kicking is woeful.

I'll wager that coaching may have something to do with it, but wilful and continuous mis-management of the club is to blame.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

wellstiger
Bronze Member
Bronze Member
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:56 am

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by wellstiger » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:18 pm

Just a thought....
How many penalties were awarded to Tigers throughout the game?
How many of these were Convertible?
When confidence is low why were we not keeping the score board ticking over?

Was it just a game plan or lack of decision making?

Flash
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:45 pm

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Flash » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:23 pm

I was impressed that Joe Ford could have been mistaken for one of the late subs based on shirt appearance.

Tiglon
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:54 pm
Location: Bath

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Tiglon » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:43 pm

wellstiger wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:18 pm
Just a thought....
How many penalties were awarded to Tigers throughout the game?
How many of these were Convertible?
When confidence is low why were we not keeping the score board ticking over?

Was it just a game plan or lack of decision making?
I think it's just a characteristic of the modern game - teams kick for the corner rather than goal even when there's little evidence that they will score from any of their next hundred 5m lineouts, let alone that one.

Roly
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2351
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:02 pm

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Roly » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:01 pm

Tiglon wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:43 pm
wellstiger wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:18 pm
Just a thought....
How many penalties were awarded to Tigers throughout the game?
How many of these were Convertible?
When confidence is low why were we not keeping the score board ticking over?

Was it just a game plan or lack of decision making?
I think it's just a characteristic of the modern game - teams kick for the corner rather than goal even when there's little evidence that they will score from any of their next hundred 5m lineouts, let alone that one.
I'm pretty sure that the likes of Exeter, Saracens and Wasps would think they had every chance of scoring from a line-out drive because:

a) their line outs work;
b) they have an effective mauling game and;
c) When they're near the line, they're patient and they score.

Ergo, teams kick for the corner because they're going to score - most of the time.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

strawclearer
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3524
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by strawclearer » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:29 pm

MO'C: "We didn’t take our chances and that was the huge lesson we take from tonight."

Help me out here - what was the lesson? To "take our chances"? Did we need a lesson for that?

I know it's not easy to 'front up' after such matches but :smt017
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
Help save the Oceans - #RefuseTheStraw!

strawclearer
Super User
Super User
Posts: 3524
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by strawclearer » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:41 pm

Apologies if these have already been posted - and I can't vouch for the veracity...

▪️Territory: Castres 41% Tigers 59%
▪️Possession: Castres 45% Tigers 55%
▪️Penalties conceded: Castres 15 Tigers 11

Castres 39-0 Tigers
Happy days clearing straw from the pitch before the Baa-Baas games! KBO
Help save the Oceans - #RefuseTheStraw!

Stephen18
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:51 am

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Stephen18 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:59 pm

Flash wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:23 pm
I was impressed that Joe Ford could have been mistaken for one of the late subs based on shirt appearance.
You could see during the defensive set up he moved to outside centre, meaning both swings in defenders had to come in to take his man, and also leaving c Thacker as 1st defender it’s lucky Evans was able to cover so much grown to make those tackles otherwise it could have been even move.

Tiglon
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:54 pm
Location: Bath

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Tiglon » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:01 am

Roly wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:01 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:43 pm
wellstiger wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:18 pm
Just a thought....
How many penalties were awarded to Tigers throughout the game?
How many of these were Convertible?
When confidence is low why were we not keeping the score board ticking over?

Was it just a game plan or lack of decision making?
I think it's just a characteristic of the modern game - teams kick for the corner rather than goal even when there's little evidence that they will score from any of their next hundred 5m lineouts, let alone that one.
I'm pretty sure that the likes of Exeter, Saracens and Wasps would think they had every chance of scoring from a line-out drive because:

a) their line outs work;
b) they have an effective mauling game and;
c) When they're near the line, they're patient and they score.

Ergo, teams kick for the corner because they're going to score - most of the time.
Of course some teams do it with good reason, my point is that even those teams that do not have good reason to be confident do it anyway.

I know you like an argument Roly, but we're both on the same page on this one :smt017

Roly
Super User
Super User
Posts: 2351
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:02 pm

Re: Castres vs Tigers

Post by Roly » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:14 am

Tiglon wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:01 am
Roly wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:01 pm
Tiglon wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:43 pm


I think it's just a characteristic of the modern game - teams kick for the corner rather than goal even when there's little evidence that they will score from any of their next hundred 5m lineouts, let alone that one.
I'm pretty sure that the likes of Exeter, Saracens and Wasps would think they had every chance of scoring from a line-out drive because:

a) their line outs work;
b) they have an effective mauling game and;
c) When they're near the line, they're patient and they score.

Ergo, teams kick for the corner because they're going to score - most of the time.
Of course some teams do it with good reason, my point is that even those teams that do not have good reason to be confident do it anyway.

I know you like an argument Roly, but we're both on the same page on this one :smt017
I've certainly noticed that kicking to the corner was more prevalent in last weekend's European games - but, for some teams, 5 points was a must. Also, have you noticed that the teams doing well are seeking to play a much more aggressive and expansive game than those who are struggling? Less conservative shall we say. But I think you'd have to be careful about suggesting that everybody is at it - witness Ospreys v Saracens - and I certainly don't think its wholly true in the AP.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests