Cohen, Glynn, to be sacked?

[Roly]

Somebody already said it on here (I can't remember who - sorry) but it isn't that MoC is necessarily a bad coach, it's most likely because the rest of the coaching team are not good enough, and they're not supporting MoC.

MoC does lack charisma/character/obvious leadership skill (whatever you wish to call it) but he isn't being helped out here by his staff or the BoD. I don't see Rob Baxter on the pitch pre-match jumping up and down and exhorting his men to rip up trees, but his team are no less effective for it - its all down to the quality of coaching staff as a whole.

[trendylfj]

Must say that's pretty much how I saw the game. First half I thought we looked un-coached with no framework for the game. Second half we had aggression and application. Is this a motivational issue. It sure looks like one.

+1

I made a comment recently about me watching the forwards practising their line out in the hotel car park in Castres and Deacon just standing there ( maybe he thought it was a lost cause) with little enthusiasm and certainly no coaching going on. It is clear from the comment in the rugby paper re friction in the coaching set up that something needs to be done asap. I am sorry to say this but imho either MOC has to get on and be the boss and if the rest don't like it then they need to be told to get on their bikes. Or MOC needs to go and take with him the person/people who appointed him. We have heard these rumours of discontent for 3 or 4 seasons now and it seems to be coming back again.

[Grimlish]

During a warm up the team are a) warming up and b) rehearsing preset drills. They shouldn’t need ‘coaching’ at that stage and if they do that would be a total failure of the coaching staff.

There may be an issue about how to motivate this particular team in the pre-match phase, but it’s very unlikely that just barking orders at them or jumping up and down will work. It’s not how other teams’ coaches or DoRs do it from what I see. Cockers was unusual in running around with a whistle in my experience and he certainly didn’t do it every game. Wasn’t it a criticism of him here that he was too ready to coach and not ready enough to ‘direct’?

The players are expected to know the drills and their role, to show leadership and to react to what is happening in real time as they play. The coaching staff need to help them get in the right mindset to perform at their peak but in reality only the players themselves can make or allow that to happen.

Nor is what happened on Sunday in the first ten minutes (especially the freakish second try) itself evidence of lack of motivation. The fact that the players got back into the game after that start was in my view far more significant and more positive than I’ve seen for a while.

[Tiglon]

During a warm up the team are a) warming up and b) rehearsing preset drills. They shouldn’t need ‘coaching’ at that stage and if they do that would be a total failure of the coaching staff.

There may be an issue about how to motivate this particular team in the pre-match phase, but it’s very unlikely that just barking orders at them or jumping up and down will work. It’s not how other teams’ coaches or DoRs do it from what I see. Cockers was unusual in running around with a whistle in my experience and he certainly didn’t do it every game. Wasn’t it a criticism of him here that he was too ready to coach and not ready enough to ‘direct’?

The players are expected to know the drills and their role, to show leadership and to react to what is happening in real time as they play. The coaching staff need to help them get in the right mindset to perform at their peak but in reality only the players themselves can make or allow that to happen.

Nor is what happened on Sunday in the first ten minutes (especially the freakish second try) itself evidence of lack of motivation. The fact that the players got back into the game after that start was in my view far more significant and more positive than I’ve seen for a while.

Agreed. Good analysis.

I would like to add that coaching professional adults is not like coaching children - they shouldn't need constant direction, motivation, encouragement and orders. Coaching adults is about giving them the direction and the tools to get to the destination themselves.

As Galileo once said: "You can teach a man nothing, you can only help him to find it within himself". That's what coaching is about, in any profession, not barking out relentless orders as though you were coaching robots.

It always baffles me when sports coaches are talked of as "great motivators" - if your professional sports people need that much motivation, you have the wrong people.

[trendylfj]

Whilst to a degree I accept what you are saying - if you are a coach and a drill is not going well and you can see the reason for it and it is not being sorted by the players - should you give them at least a hint, comment. The car park line out drills were not going well, timing was off (generally late lifts or early throws - not skilled enough to know which it was) and the throws were a little long. If the players, who were mainly 2nd/3rd string a little reminder would have helped I would have thought when the same error was being made.

[Leicestertinytiger]

MOC can’t be blamed be blamed for the lack of coaching team. He’s only one man and think he should be judged more fairly when a proper coaching team is in place. Him as head coach who does the backs and attack and then 3 other coaches, forwards, defence and skills.

Deacon and Murphy only gave the jobs because they are ex-Tigers. Deacon could go back to the development squad and Murphy to Cardiff. Murphy has never really shown anything to merit him staying as a coach, the skill set has never improved with him as that coach.

MOC also can’t be blamed of the players not taking any responsibility. Thought against Racing a lot of the players did take personal responsibility for how themselves played individually and for that as a whole we played better. Kitchener, Cole, Wells and O’Connor all stepped up and other players should follow their example.

Radio show last week alluded to the coaching team being sorted by the end of the month. Looking at the squad, if they were properly coached with only a few additions, not wholesale changes as some are advocating, we will do well next season.

[fortysix]

One major problem is players mentality. They are bound to read the Forums, and if they know they are not respected or wanted by the Coach or Fans or by both parties, their immediate reaction is------------STUFF YOU

Human nature, social media has a lot to answer for

And a lot of our problems have come with the rise of social media but in our case, our esteemed Board are light years behind the opposition.

[chewbacca]

I thought the 2nd half against Racing showed that the players are capable of competing. In respect to social media perhaps they should adopt a 'stuff you' attitude to us fans as well.

[voice of the crumbie]

I thought the 2nd half against Racing showed that the players are capable of competing. In respect to social media perhaps they should adopt a 'stuff you' attitude to us fans as well.

That would be "stuff you" to those who pay their wages then. Fans are already not renewing season tickets. How viable is the club if a few thousand were to drop way over the next few seasons because coaches and players are still turning out the turgid rubbish of the past month and a half?

[chewbacca]

I thought the 2nd half against Racing showed that the players are capable of competing. In respect to social media perhaps they should adopt a 'stuff you' attitude to us fans as well.

That would be "stuff you" to those who pay their wages then. Fans are already not renewing season tickets. How viable is the club if a few thousand were to drop way over the next few seasons because coaches and players are still turning out the turgid rubbish of the past month and a half?

I meant in a positive way of 'Stuff you I'll show you'. I thought I saw elements of that against Racing. That doesn't mean the criticism should continue just I would hope that would be the reaction.

[NorthernTigers]

I think we're being too kind in relating to the poor results (turgid rubbish) over the last month and a half! Try the last 5 years plus!! The only common denominators in all of this time, their abysmal contribution and selfish attitude being displayed to the savagely loyal supporters are the BOD, committee or old boys club! In today's professional era, they just simply cannot hang on to days of yore for their own fulfilment. Sure they may deserve to be recognised as life memebers etc...but not responsible for running a professional sporting business..Was MOC the only contender that the OBC felt comfortable with as any other world class coach that we were supposedly led to believe they were searching the world for...really ? would have a more single minded, success rewarding and stronger approach, would not accept their intolerable control and continual interference- Same old excuses, same old s..., same old mediocrity that is actually worsening....Time to move on..but deep down, nothing will really change..

[BFG]

During a warm up the team are a) warming up and b) rehearsing preset drills. They shouldn’t need ‘coaching’ at that stage and if they do that would be a total failure of the coaching staff.

There may be an issue about how to motivate this particular team in the pre-match phase, but it’s very unlikely that just barking orders at them or jumping up and down will work. It’s not how other teams’ coaches or DoRs do it from what I see. Cockers was unusual in running around with a whistle in my experience and he certainly didn’t do it every game. Wasn’t it a criticism of him here that he was too ready to coach and not ready enough to ‘direct’?

The players are expected to know the drills and their role, to show leadership and to react to what is happening in real time as they play. The coaching staff need to help them get in the right mindset to perform at their peak but in reality only the players themselves can make or allow that to happen.

Nor is what happened on Sunday in the first ten minutes (especially the freakish second try) itself evidence of lack of motivation. The fact that the players got back into the game after that start was in my view far more significant and more positive than I’ve seen for a while.

Agreed. Good analysis.

I would like to add that coaching professional adults is not like coaching children - they shouldn't need constant direction, motivation, encouragement and orders. Coaching adults is about giving them the direction and the tools to get to the destination themselves.

As Galileo once said: "You can teach a man nothing, you can only help him to find it within himself". That's what coaching is about, in any profession, not barking out relentless orders as though you were coaching robots.

It always baffles me when sports coaches are talked of as "great motivators" - if your professional sports people need that much motivation, you have the wrong people.

It is a good analysis.
Not sure if Leicester always start poorly.
Yongsters can be just as unmotivated if getting the incorrect level of input pre match.
The methods are surely already known as pro's!

[h's dad]

One major problem is players mentality. They are bound to read the Forums, and if they know they are not respected or wanted by the Coach or Fans or by both parties, their immediate reaction is------------STUFF YOU

Human nature, social media has a lot to answer for

And a lot of our problems have come with the rise of social media but in our case, our esteemed Board are light years behind the opposition.

Actually 46, I think the players reaction to forum posts if/when read is a lot less vociferous than STUFF YOU.
More along the lines of, 'The forum? They're all idiots on there.'

[mol2]

Perhaps they should look at the recordings of a few of this season’s matches before suggesting they know much more than the forum.

[Redstripeman]

So....... when is he going then?
The performance of the developement team against Wasp is a clear indication that the problems afflicting the first team runs through the club and it is now clearly in Tigers DNA.
It is unthinkable that MOC can continue to the end of the season when he oversees this debacle. I understand that a deal may have been agreed that should he make the top 6 them he position would no longer be under scrutiny. This will mean we will be rewarding failure.
Our problems have been well documented and has been an issue for some time. Cockers' tenancy is as much to blame and the subsequent re-invention by the club has brought us to this.
There are those who long for Cockers' to return and will cite lack of support by the Board and Capping as handcuffs binding his ability to develope this team. The only problem was he only had one way of playing and the game had changed and he stubbornly would not change along with it.
The mentality of the players are a big issue and in the AWC game there seem to be no one willing to take the initiative in leading the players and just as the first XV there is quite clearly no leadership on the pitch and even more damning off the pitch as well.