Cohen, Glynn, to be sacked?

[jgriffin]

Good God I am agreeing with sapajo again!
That's because we've seen this coach before......the back play today was non-existent, Wuss showed far more BUT we didn't go there to do fancy-dan moves, we played a forwards dominated game of attrition, a hand-wrestle we won in the second half.
Not comparable to the old team which had some exceptional players - Scotty (a great sniffer of touchline tries) and Toby for a start.
HOWEVER if we have reliable front-foot ball we may well see some development, I will withhold further judgement, but won't hold my breath. I think Bakewell has had a big impact.

[DeadlyDunc]

Back play is no different than anything I have seen all season. What is different is that the backs are getting more and quicker ball secured by the forwards. As good a coach as Mr Bakewell may prove to be, fact remains that MOC wasted this season to sign him. Only time will tell if this sacrifice was worth it, especially if we finish out of europe!

I get confused on this lack of back play argument - stats provided on another thread show under MOC we out scored every team in each of his 3 seasons here last time around.

The argument back is that we don’t do anything different in our back play and rely on moments of magic from TV, Toomua or Manu but then everyone seems in agreement that Rob Baxter is the DOR we should get and Exeter are the team we should play like and it’s fair to say that they don’t “do anything different” in back play

As far as I can work out we should play like “old tigers” but not win solely through forward power cause we want backs to score. Instead, we should do what Exeter do but also do something different to they do which (admittedly not as well) isn’t far off what we are trying to do which is win the gain line time and time again and get men around the corner.

Aside from Wasps and whatever it is Harlequins try to do I don’t see any team in the Premiership that does “anything different” in back play it’s just that Exeter and Sarries do it better than anyone else cause they win collisions and win the gain line more effectively than any other team.

Given then that the old age that 'forwards win games backs decide by how many' then we could say that the lack of recruitment of a top flight forwards coach after Cockers left was a big mistake. Im not sure that blame can be laid at MOCs door.

Agreed

[BFG]

Folk can hold opinions on playing style or tactics or whatever they want but MOC has been correct all along in that Leicester have needed to be more accurate.
The Worcester fixtures have really highlighted it in my opinion.
At Welford Road although the turnover count was fairly close it was in Worcester's favour and they pipped Leicester.
In the return at Sixways Worcester gave up the ball more than double that of Leicester and it told.
These Premiership sides are very close and mistakes can be costly in my opinion, one minute a side can be throwing in not straight five metres out or dropping a pass and minutes later conceding a try.

[Tiglon]

It was all about accuracy. Worcester dropped the ball a lot (especially in promising situations), Leicester didn't.

The opposite is why Saracens beat us at Welford Road.

[ourla]

That's because we've seen this coach before......the back play today was non-existent, Wuss showed far more

Are you Roly in disguise? I fear that you will be off the can not be persuaded ranks on this one.

Not comparable to the old team which had some exceptional players - Scotty (a great sniffer of touchline tries) and Toby for a start.

So TV and May are not exceptional backs?

I will withhold further judgement, but won't hold my breath. I think Bakewell has had a big impact.

As I said, your mind is made up. MOC can do not right.

[jgriffin]

Not really, just think the 2012 era team was undervalued and the coaching overvalued. MOC has not convinced me as a backs coach, but if he has identified the issues and been instrumental in remedying them, he deserves credit. He has the experience to take us back up to the top, so we shall see how it pans out. I am perfectly happy to praise the improvements!
Roly in disguise????? Blimey, that would take some doing!!!!

[Soggypitch]

The big difference has been in the forwards, now playing much more directly and creating front foot ball.

When you give that sort of ball to talents such as Toomua and Veainu they can do wonders, as we've seen the last couple of weeks.

Let's hope George gets similar quality ball on his return v Wasps.

[BFG]

The big difference has been in the forwards, now playing much more directly and creating front foot ball.

When you give that sort of ball to talents such as Toomua and Veainu they can do wonders, as we've seen the last couple of weeks.

Let's hope George gets similar quality ball on his return v Wasps.

Disagree, Leicester are holding onto the ball better, building phases and pressure which increases as the phases increase.
Handling errors have killed Leicester's ball carrying ability in recent times.
Other turnovers such as poor line out execution etc have also contributed to poor performances, every time you give the ball up you have got to work to get it back again.
Worcester must've conceded possession about twenty times on Sunday, that's once every four minutes, no chance if you can't keep possession long enough!

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Just as the carnage wasn't all MOC fault, the resurrection isn't all down to him.
He should never of been rehired, but unless we fail to get Top 6, I doubt the board will act.
If we continue as per last 2 games it will be good, improvement even better, but feel this will of been a wasted season.

[Tiglon]

The Premiership is more evenly contested than ever. Every club has had a poor run at some point this season, and now even Gloucester, with that coach everyone thinks we should have hired, are having a tough time.

A lot still to be played for this season, let's judge MOC at the end of it. And let's judge him fairly on this season, not on whether we liked him 5 years ago, and not on how we feel about his face in press conferences.

If we finish top 6 then I don't see why he shouldn't be given more time to see what he can do next season with a coaching and playing team that is actually his, rather than inherited from the confusion that preceded.

[TigerCam]

Back play is no different than anything I have seen all season. What is different is that the backs are getting more and quicker ball secured by the forwards. As good a coach as Mr Bakewell may prove to be, fact remains that MOC wasted this season to sign him. Only time will tell if this sacrifice was worth it, especially if we finish out of europe!

I get confused on this lack of back play argument - stats provided on another thread show under MOC we out scored every team in each of his 3 seasons here last time around.

The argument back is that we don’t do anything different in our back play and rely on moments of magic from TV, Toomua or Manu but then everyone seems in agreement that Rob Baxter is the DOR we should get and Exeter are the team we should play like and it’s fair to say that they don’t “do anything different” in back play

As far as I can work out we should play like “old tigers” but not win solely through forward power cause we want backs to score. Instead, we should do what Exeter do but also do something different to they do which (admittedly not as well) isn’t far off what we are trying to do which is win the gain line time and time again and get men around the corner.

Aside from Wasps and whatever it is Harlequins try to do I don’t see any team in the Premiership that does “anything different” in back play it’s just that Exeter and Sarries do it better than anyone else cause they win collisions and win the gain line more effectively than any other team.

Given then that the old age that 'forwards win games backs decide by how many' then we could say that the lack of recruitment of a top flight forwards coach after Cockers left was a big mistake. Im not sure that blame can be laid at MOCs door.

I agree. The fact that Mark seems to have shaken the forwards up, and lets not forget the half backs also being more direct, there must have been many on the staff at WR that were 'blind' to the problems? Whether that was due to incompetency, in-grained 'must be done the Tigers way' or whatever, there seems to be a resurgence in the Tigers ability to compete. In MOC previous tenure, the stats apparently show that the Tigers outscored every team but since then the change to the rules have forced the game to change to where, IMO, the 'breakdown' becomes the pivot of where teams succeed or fail? Just look how England failed against the Jocks? A rugby side may be made up of forwards and backs with their own respective skills sets and demeanours but the game now requires all players to have quick decision making and good hand skills, something Mauger wanted to address on his arrival and IMO for whatever reason never happened? Long gone are the days where at a proper ruck and rucking it seemed to be an age before the 'fat boys' turned up from the last pile-up - puffing and blowing!! Greg Bateman is a prime example in the last two games where reading the game well and good 'hands' make all the difference - even his plays at 9 on Sunday were good. Players like him and Genge that stay on their feet and can perform all over the park is where ball will be won. The acid test for the Tigers will be the game against Wasps in which we will see who is the best at the breakdown on the day. If the Tigers win that battle then IMO top 6 is a given and top 4 is really do-able and who knows, may be my annual trip to Twickers in May will see the Tigers run out for the final?

[Rugbyflanker]

Is it too simplistic to say the revival has begun since Bakewell came in and Toomua moved to 10?

[Hot_Charlie]

Yes, but there is a strong link towards the former at least.

[Stephen18]

As much as i dont agree with moc as head coach, now many of the jobs he was given have been given to other qualified coach with the forwards and defence. It now seems to have turned a corner whether that was moc who pushed for these changes, or the board finally listened to what everyone on this board, every other board and the media were saying needed to happen. Im sure we’ll ever know either way, and all that really matters is we keep moving in the right direction, and keep improving both in the forwards and backs. I’m not against moc staying on as coach as long as a strong director of rugby is put in place, to make sure changes that need to be made are made faster, rather than after 2 months of trying the same thing and it not working.

[JP14]

As much as i dont agree with moc as head coach, now many of the jobs he was given have been given to other qualified coach with the forwards and defence. It now seems to have turned a corner whether that was moc who pushed for these changes, or the board finally listened to what everyone on this board, every other board and the media were saying needed to happen. Im sure we’ll ever know either way, and all that really matters is we keep moving in the right direction, and keep improving both in the forwards and backs. I’m not against moc staying on as coach as long as a strong director of rugby is put in place, to make sure changes that need to be made are made faster, rather than after 2 months of trying the same thing and it not working.

+1