Cohen, Glynn, to be sacked?

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TTRITH
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by TTRITH » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:26 am

NONAME wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:11 am
He has signed off on some excellent signings for next season and rumour has it there may be a couple more yet to be announced.
Unless we're getting a top quality 3 to push Dan Cole back to his best (and not a guy who has struggled in the Championship with Bristol) and a top quality 10 to push George Ford and provide serious competition for the shirt they won't be what we need.
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:31 am

Two reasons why we are where we are,MOC and George Ford. I have been proved exactly right with what I said before a ball was passed in anger,and so easy to see it coming too!

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by POSTIGER » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:37 am

TTRITH wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:23 am
NONAME wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:52 am
The mistake was made when AM joined the club. It was clear to anyone who watches Southern Hemisphere Rugby the RC/AM combination would not work. Maybe there was an agenda to move RC out, which happened but AM was doomed to failure. He didn't understand Northern Hemisphere Rugby. Its a game based around a strong pack winning ball, competing at the breakdown. To do this you need very physical players who are normally well built. (There are exceptions). Afraid many of Tigers signings did not fill that role. Goodbye AM.

Hello MOC...inherited a squad low on confidence and in some cases not physically up to the job. No forwards coach as the deal struck with Bristol was once promotion was achieved the deal could be finalised. Forwards coach arrives...Instant improvement and winning run begins. All doing well until we have a weeks break. Play Northampton, should have been an easy win but too busy trying to score 4 tries rather than kicking the penalties and securing the win. Notably we had enough chances to to score 4 tries in open play but failed to finish off some great moves.

Top 4..a must win game against Newcastle. First try, everyone in the stand saw it coming, where were the guards? Tigers come back and as expected the game became very tight, For me their was 3 turning points in the game after Tigers seemed to be on top, MT and TAF leave the field and finally a Yellow card. (Although my player of the season Matt Tait came on and did a good job as always) I would suggest that none of these events were down to MOC.

Finally, how close are we to becoming a great team again, well how did we really do? were we thrashed in every game we lost? were we easily beaten? The answer is NO and how do I know that, just look at the table and see how many losing bonus points we got. An additional try in 2 or 3 of those games and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Thats how close we are.
I understand your point, but I can't say I agree with it. There are a number of faults that lay, not only at MOC's door, but at Glynns door.

Why do we only have one quality fly half? Where is the contest for the shirt?
Why do certain players get selected regardless of form or match fitness? (Thompstone, Ben Youngs, Dan Cole, Mike Fitzgerald, Graham Kitchener)
Why has the Tigers game plan all too often been to kick the ball away without a significant chase game?
Why yesterday, when we were 10 points up, did the game plan revert to said kicking the ball away?
Why has our home form been so dire? 5 losses in 11 in the league, 2 in 3 in Europe?
Why do the players lack any leaders, any direction, in games where we find ourselves on the back foot?
Where is the inspirational voice in the dressing room when things are at their worst?
Why are the basic skills falling off?
Why is there an utter reluctance to fully utilise players like Holmes, Evans, Wells, who have constantly shown they are worth a punt?

For me Matt O'Connor needs to go, he isn't the coach we need, and despite the senior players wanting him, he is failing to influence them successfully. We are going backwards and the board need to realise it, realise they made a mistake in appointing him in the first place and go back to the drawing board.
Well said TTRITH. Fully agree with every point you've made there. My thoughts exactly.

In my mind he has to go. He was the players choice and it looks like everyone is that bit too comfortable.

As you say 5 home losses in 11? That is totally unacceptable for a club like Tigers.
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:38 am

I think both Cole and Ford are tired as are a lot of the squad. In years gone by we used to have replacements almost as good as your starting players. Lets face it, we don't any longer so guys like Cole play far too much Rugby. Just compare the minutes on the pitch he has played this season compared with the starting props for Munster, Ulster, Leinster..and its not just Dan Cole check around the other premiership clubs. There are a lot of tired bodies. Why? The game as got faster. This was always going to happen when you change laws to pander a TV audience.

I actually saw Dan after the game he was clearly exhausted and I can tell you George was really upset. These guys care.

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by BFG » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:41 am

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:31 am
Two reasons why we are where we are,MOC and George Ford. I have been proved exactly right with what I said before a ball was passed in anger,and so easy to see it coming too!
The biggest failing in your view is your complete failure to recognise that MOC is in a very difficult position regarding Ford, and Youngs, and others.
MOC is the coach, he is given the players and expected to get them to perform, but IMO the biggest question has to be this, is MOC restricted in who he is allowed to drop?
To be honest I don't think even the best coach in the world could get some of those players to perform to the level required as long as there places and paycheck are secured!

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:45 am

MOC got it wrong last night (and previously) badly. Ford was poor again,kicked out of hand terribly for 60 minutes,made a pathetic 4 runs for 1 metre not threatening the line AGAIN and was used as a handbag every time he tackled. BY was off the pace again understandably and should've started on the bench and Manu wasn't ready either not to mention the way he seemed to be used (can any explain it?!). Poor coach totally out of his depth who fell onto the right formula with Toomua at 10 then completely bottled it when old Georgey boy came back and changed things! Has to go now, should never have got the gig. Reap what you sow!

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by RagingBull » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:45 am

I'm pretty sure not even MOC is the last one to have final say of new signings.
MOC been was vocal about keeping Mulipola, he goes to Falcons.
MOC was keen to bring in Cordero who by the sounds of it was keen to come ends up at Exeter.

Think we are the only team (well and Bath) who don't have the Head Coach giving the final say on who to bring in.

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:46 am

If he is restricted in who he can play then that's a joke! I can't see that surely!

Edit: Actually excellent point BFG! Didn't jgriff say that tge senior players had last say on MOC getting the job. Maybe it's because they knee they were guaranteed picks. If this is the case we are in worse trouble than I thought!
Last edited by Rugbyflanker on Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:49 am

You might be right but...

Should MOC be a coaching the side?

I think he should have a role like Deano, Di Young, etc...Director of Rugby with little involvement in the coaching but selecting and guiding the club. It seems to be working at most other clubs. Just a thought...

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by Tigerbeat » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:49 am

Simon Cohen stated at the forum that MOC was given the resource that he has requested.
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by Rugbyflanker » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:52 am

No!!! MOC shouldn't be involved in any capacity!

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:02 pm

Just trying to be positive...as I've said previously we are not a bad team when you consider how close we have been to winning most of the games we eventually lost (see losing bonus points gained). an additional try in two or three of those games and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Small margins, silly errors and yellow cards. Do agree we shouldn't be kicking the ball away to the opposition...I remember Owen Williams doing it at Northampton and it cost us the game.

Most disappointing thing yesterday was we had the chance to score on several occasions by just chipping over their backline. They had no cover but we seemed unable to recognise the opportunity. Freddie would have? What has happened to the golden rule..Play whats in front of you?

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by BFG » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:10 pm

Well the bottom line is that few know who is actually calling which shots.
The saying too many chiefs comes to mind!

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by POSTIGER » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:11 pm

Rugbyflanker wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:45 am
MOC got it wrong last night (and previously) badly. Ford was poor again,kicked out of hand terribly for 60 minutes,made a pathetic 4 runs for 1 metre not threatening the line AGAIN and was used as a handbag every time he tackled. BY was off the pace again understandably and should've started on the bench and Manu wasn't ready either not to mention the way he seemed to be used (can any explain it?!). Poor coach totally out of his depth who fell onto the right formula with Toomua at 10 then completely bottled it when old Georgey boy came back and changed things! Has to go now, should never have got the gig. Reap what you sow!
Half agree with you RF. I thought Ford's kicking from hand was actually pretty good on the whole but I totally agree that he just doesn't take it to the line and commit defenders. There were times last night he treated the ball like a hot potato. He received the ball from Youngs at the rock and instantly shipped the ball on without really getting his head up and seeing what was on. To me that suggests he is lacking a little in confidence.

Obviously it's fine to get the ball and play it early if that's the right option but he did it EVERY time which made it easy for Newcastle to defend our attacks because there was little to no variation. I was pleased when we signed him but I have been really disappointed by how few line breaks he's made this season. To be honest at times last night it was as if he was worried about taking the hit so he was passing quickly and narrowing the play.

In my mind he's a very good FH and the old adage 'form is temporary, class is permanent' (hopefully) applies here but he has to start delivering again at some point. I thought it spoke volumes that Gatland didn't consider him for the Lions tour last year.

Lastly, I wish someone at the club would look at what Leinster and Ireland (the best teams in the NH) are doing and take note. There were a few time yesterday when we were in their 20 but failing to bludgeon our way through and yet there wasn't a single high kick to the corners. Similarly, there was numerous occasions on which Hammersley and Harris were the only Falcons in the back field and were standing miles apart from each other and yet we didn't put ANY kicks in behind. Those top teams take risks but it's a case of high risk, high reward. Why not take our lead from more successful sides?
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by JP14 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:17 pm

I feel we’re becoming like Gloucester in previous seasons: a traditional club, passionate and loyal fan base, great stadium, excellent sources of talent at Oakham, Market Harborough, Hinckley & Norfolk (yes Norfolk for some reason); academy full of exciting prospects, plentiful internationals, first-rate Forward and scrum coach...

Yet we have been ridiculously inconsistent, looked one-dimensional in attack, lack of skillset, lack of cohesion in the drive & the lineout, lost most close games, no Plan-B, poor kick-chase (it’s only a poor kick if it’s a poor chase) on the wrong-side of the officials and there are no leaders on the pitch. We’re going to lose players, money, fans etc if Cohen/Tom/O’Connor don’t do the right thing and leave.
"Our Greatest Glory Is Not In Never Failing, But In Rising Every Time We Fall" Confucius

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