Cohen, Glynn, to be sacked?

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Tiglon
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by Tiglon » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:20 am

Hinckley Bob wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:10 pm
This is beginning to sound like a wendyball forum, lose a couple of games and sack the coach! No-one was saying that EJ was not up to it before the 6 Nations and the criticism of MOC will go quiet if we start next season well.
Nail on the head. I think it's more a case of other nations having improved quicker than England in the last year, along with some key injuries and key players not performing how they did previously (Itoje giving away 2 penalties for interfering at the lineout against Ireland - fine, have a go once to see if the ref spots it, but when he does you know not to do it again - stupid). It doesn't mean Eddie Jones is clueless all of a sudden.

IT does pose some questions of his selections, which were previously answered by "we've won almost every game". But, it sounds like he has realised that and some players will now be consigned to the England history books.

Ireland have adapted quickest to the way the laws are currently being officiated and seem to have the clearest collective mind on the pitch. What's the betting that the breakdown interpretations change again at the end of the year and every team is back to square one?

EJ needs to spend the next 12/18 months helping his players learn how to read a referee on the pitch and quickly adapt to his style. The difference between Ireland and England was the breakdown and penalties.

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by JP14 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:04 am

I feel after last night’s performance there is good reason to restart the thread :smt024
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by Crofty » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:44 am

JP14 wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:04 am
I feel after last night’s performance there is good reason to restart the thread :smt024
Fair, and I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment, however if we get rid, who replaces him, Bakewell, Stanko, someone from outside? If it is an internal appointment, who do we get in to cover the gap that would cause? If an outsider, who? The coaching merry-go-round of the last few years has come back to bite us and hard, would you trust Cohen if he told you that you'd have the full support of the BoD and the opportunity to rebuild as needed?
No, not that one!

Remember, whatever you do to the smallest of the backs you do to his prop, and you can't avoid the rucks and mauls forever...

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by RagingBull » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:59 am

Sack Gylnn bring in a Pelous type figure like Toulouse as a proper limited coaching type DOR but can set fire in the belly. (Shame the clear choice is not interested in rugby anymore)
Head Coach wise well break the bank and get an proper top dog coach, Robbie Deans has worked with Bakewell in Aus.... If Robertson is on the Quins watchlist then why not ours, I know quins have that NZ link BUT end of the day I think £££££ talks now and unless Plumtree has been told the New Zealand job could be his after the 2019 RWC (Which will be Schmidt) I reckon we could pinch him for the right ££££ even if he is a cert to take over.

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by mightymouse » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:02 am

Let's be frank the whole management structure has be on shaky ground for several years now. Strong on rhetoric and weak on action.

How about clearing out the board including Tom, Wheeler and Cohen and bring in people who understand how to build a rugby club from the Base up with the right ethos and values of playing for the team. Buying wisely and encouraging youth development.

For me Dean Richards is the only man for the Chairman's job with John Wells as DOR. Within 4 years we would once again be a powerful club.

Sadly it will never happen because the people who have so badly let the club down will not fall on their swords and Deano would not return to a club that he gave so much to, and to continue the Roman analogy, then stabbed him in the back in an act of brutal treachery.

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by MCC1964 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:21 am

mightymouse wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:02 am

For me Dean Richards is the only man for the Chairman's job with John Wells as DOR. Within 4 years we would once again be a powerful club.
Haha, this is such an ironic statement. Do you really think anyone in this forum would give any DoR FOUR YEARS to turn things around? Two games and a lot of people are bleating again and baying for sackings. But in a sense you do have a point. It’s all about evolution, not revolution. The very thing that has damaged this club in recent years is CHANGE and by that I mean the amount of it. Huge turnover of players and coaching staff. No club can expect to challenge under those circumstances. Look at the clubs that have come to dominate in recent years: Exeter, Sarries and Wasps. How long were their coaching staff and core players in place before they had any success? Two game, two seasons? More than that I would say.

And now look at Newcastle. How long have Deano and Wellsy been up there slowly tweaking things to get to this point?

No, what we actually need is a period of stability, like it or lump it. Now, that’s not to say that I think everything in the garden is rosy and that some tweaks are not needed. I for one would like to see a little more pressure on some of the senior players by occasionally dropping one or two for the younger up-and-comings. I’d like to see that backs coaching bolstered and more options in the centres. But we simply can’t keep turning over coaches and playing staff at the rate we have in recent years. It’s never worked and never will do........in my opinion of course!

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:22 am

Mightymouse.....Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I suggest you might like to check your facts out first. Peter Wheeler is not on the Board of Directors. Do you follow the Tigers or are you a Northampton fan just stirring the pot?
Last edited by NONAME on Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by Jose » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:25 am

Two crucial home games. Team close to full strength, less injuries than you would expect at this stage of the season. Two defeats. No top 4, at real risk of no top 6. No visible signs of progress or evidence of any longer term vision. Why would we keep O'Connor? (Other than because it would save the Board admitting what a pig's ear they've made over the last 3 years).
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by TTRITH » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:34 am

MCC1964 wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:21 am
mightymouse wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:02 am

For me Dean Richards is the only man for the Chairman's job with John Wells as DOR. Within 4 years we would once again be a powerful club.
Haha, this is such an ironic statement. Do you really think anyone in this forum would give any DoR FOUR YEARS to turn things around? Two games and a lot of people are bleating again and baying for sackings. But in a sense you do have a point. It’s all about evolution, not revolution. The very thing that has damaged this club in recent years is CHANGE and by that I mean the amount of it. Huge turnover of players and coaching staff. No club can expect to challenge under those circumstances. Look at the clubs that have come to dominate in recent years: Exeter, Sarries and Wasps. How long were their coaching staff and core players in place before they had any success? Two game, two seasons? More than that I would say.

And now look at Newcastle. How long have Deano and Wellsy been up there slowly tweaking things to get to this point?

No, what we actually need is a period of stability, like it or lump it. Now, that’s not to say that I think everything in the garden is rosy and that some tweaks are not needed. I for one would like to see a little more pressure on some of the senior players by occasionally dropping one or two for the younger up-and-comings. I’d like to see that backs coaching bolstered and more options in the centres. But we simply can’t keep turning over coaches and playing staff at the rate we have in recent years. It’s never worked and never will do........in my opinion of course!
Stability is great. But Cockers was in charge and we were going backwards, and there were no signs he was able to rectify that. A change needed to happen.

And that is where it all when wrong. We took the budget option, that allowed Messurs Cohen and Glynn full control of the rugby side of the club, in who they signed, who they let go and how much they were willing to spend on players to fit their "vision."

Matt O'Connor has taken us backwards. Personally, I expect Sale to lose at Exeter this weekend but get a bonus point, Gloucester to beat Bath and Wasps to win against Saints. Thats us not in top 4. That's backwards. It then leaves us against Sale for 6th spot. All we need is a LBP. But. Exeter have their home semi final all wrapped up already. They won't take any risks with their players. Sale have something to right for. If, and it is a big if, Sale win, we stay above them on wins alone. Next week is the difference between poor season and worst case scenario.

For me, he needs to go. As does Glynn. And Cohen needs less sway in the playing squad.

Let's actually do this coach hiring properly... for a change.
Richard Burnett
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:52 am

The mistake was made when AM joined the club. It was clear to anyone who watches Southern Hemisphere Rugby the RC/AM combination would not work. Maybe there was an agenda to move RC out, which happened but AM was doomed to failure. He didn't understand Northern Hemisphere Rugby. Its a game based around a strong pack winning ball, competing at the breakdown. To do this you need very physical players who are normally well built. (There are exceptions). Afraid many of Tigers signings did not fill that role. Goodbye AM.

Hello MOC...inherited a squad low on confidence and in some cases not physically up to the job. No forwards coach as the deal struck with Bristol was once promotion was achieved the deal could be finalised. Forwards coach arrives...Instant improvement and winning run begins. All doing well until we have a weeks break. Play Northampton, should have been an easy win but too busy trying to score 4 tries rather than kicking the penalties and securing the win. Notably we had enough chances to to score 4 tries in open play but failed to finish off some great moves.

Top 4..a must win game against Newcastle. First try, everyone in the stand saw it coming, where were the guards? Tigers come back and as expected the game became very tight, For me their was 3 turning points in the game after Tigers seemed to be on top, MT and TAF leave the field and finally a Yellow card. (Although my player of the season Matt Tait came on and did a good job as always) I would suggest that none of these events were down to MOC.

Finally, how close are we to becoming a great team again, well how did we really do? were we thrashed in every game we lost? were we easily beaten? The answer is NO and how do I know that, just look at the table and see how many losing bonus points we got. An additional try in 2 or 3 of those games and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Thats how close we are.
Last edited by NONAME on Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

MrPartridge
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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by MrPartridge » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:53 am

I’d have more faith in Leonard Cohen frankly. The man is a smooth taking, arrogant numpty. I wouldn’t trust him to walk my dog let alone run a top-class rugby team.

Anyone want to tell me what Cohen’s major achievements have been over the last 3 years?

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by thebearisstilldeano » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:07 am

MrPartridge wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:53 am
I’d have more faith in Leonard Cohen frankly. The man is a smooth taking, arrogant numpty. I wouldn’t trust him to walk my dog let alone run a top-class rugby team.

Anyone want to tell me what Cohen’s major achievements have been over the last 3 years?
Mr Partridge I salute you - your prose almost made me smile (and after last night that is some endorsement).
I used to sit near a stalker and we want him back "kick for the corner!!!!"

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:11 am

Yes, he has brought financial stability to the club and with the forthcoming projects Tigers have a secure future. I'm pretty sure I've not seen him dropping an easy pass, giving away a needless penalty, missing a tackle, knocking the ball on, missing a penalty or conversion, failing to secure line out ball, getting a yellow or red card, etc, etc,...

I think you may like to talk to him and ask him about his role. The guys is 100% committed to the club and achieving success which can't be said of all the playing staff. Together with JG he has already transformed the Academy which will produce dividends in the not so distant future, a really positive.

He has signed off on some excellent signings for next season and rumour has it there may be a couple more yet to be announced.

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by NONAME » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:17 am

Mr Partridge, I do think personal insults won't help matters and reflect badly on yourself. I presume you think the personal abuse directed at Mr Cohen and his wife in the car park after leaving a game is justified????

Lets stick to the facts, we won't finish Top 4 but at least we'll still be here in 5 years time. Thats putting things in perspective.

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Re: MOC to be sacked?

Post by TTRITH » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:23 am

NONAME wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:52 am
The mistake was made when AM joined the club. It was clear to anyone who watches Southern Hemisphere Rugby the RC/AM combination would not work. Maybe there was an agenda to move RC out, which happened but AM was doomed to failure. He didn't understand Northern Hemisphere Rugby. Its a game based around a strong pack winning ball, competing at the breakdown. To do this you need very physical players who are normally well built. (There are exceptions). Afraid many of Tigers signings did not fill that role. Goodbye AM.

Hello MOC...inherited a squad low on confidence and in some cases not physically up to the job. No forwards coach as the deal struck with Bristol was once promotion was achieved the deal could be finalised. Forwards coach arrives...Instant improvement and winning run begins. All doing well until we have a weeks break. Play Northampton, should have been an easy win but too busy trying to score 4 tries rather than kicking the penalties and securing the win. Notably we had enough chances to to score 4 tries in open play but failed to finish off some great moves.

Top 4..a must win game against Newcastle. First try, everyone in the stand saw it coming, where were the guards? Tigers come back and as expected the game became very tight, For me their was 3 turning points in the game after Tigers seemed to be on top, MT and TAF leave the field and finally a Yellow card. (Although my player of the season Matt Tait came on and did a good job as always) I would suggest that none of these events were down to MOC.

Finally, how close are we to becoming a great team again, well how did we really do? were we thrashed in every game we lost? were we easily beaten? The answer is NO and how do I know that, just look at the table and see how many losing bonus points we got. An additional try in 2 or 3 of those games and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Thats how close we are.
I understand your point, but I can't say I agree with it. There are a number of faults that lay, not only at MOC's door, but at Glynns door.

Why do we only have one quality fly half? Where is the contest for the shirt?
Why do certain players get selected regardless of form or match fitness? (Thompstone, Ben Youngs, Dan Cole, Mike Fitzgerald, Graham Kitchener)
Why has the Tigers game plan all too often been to kick the ball away without a significant chase game?
Why yesterday, when we were 10 points up, did the game plan revert to said kicking the ball away?
Why has our home form been so dire? 5 losses in 11 in the league, 2 in 3 in Europe?
Why do the players lack any leaders, any direction, in games where we find ourselves on the back foot?
Where is the inspirational voice in the dressing room when things are at their worst?
Why are the basic skills falling off?
Why is there an utter reluctance to fully utilise players like Holmes, Evans, Wells, who have constantly shown they are worth a punt?

For me Matt O'Connor needs to go, he isn't the coach we need, and despite the senior players wanting him, he is failing to influence them successfully. We are going backwards and the board need to realise it, realise they made a mistake in appointing him in the first place and go back to the drawing board.
Richard Burnett
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