Agreed, but sometimes things take time. If we're still where we are now at the end of the season I'll probably join those calling for a new head coach.G.K wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:02 amIt's clear that some of players are not top drawer, but who recruited them? However that aside it's getting worse, not better and much of that has to do with managememt and coaching.Tiglon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:11 pmTherein lies my point. No matter which coaches we have, we do not have the players for Tigers to be as good as we all want them to be.mol2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:07 am We don't have the players to make the decisions.
Other teams have worked out our forwards, at least with Genge out, offer negligable attacking threat.
The option to spin it wide is easily nullified if you don't have to worry about the forwards busting through the defensive line. You have the option of spreading the defensive line wider because the middle is easily defended.
Cohen, Glynn, to be sacked?
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Re: MOC to be sacked?
Re: MOC to be sacked?
I agree Tiglon,Until our so called star players regain some kind of form then talk about getting a new Rugby Director is just a waste of breath.
Re: MOC to be sacked?
Who is responsible for enabling our “star players” return to form? I thought that was the role of the head coach / DoR. It’s called motivation.
Valhalla I am coming!
Re: MOC to be sacked?
If you're a 20/30 something professional sports person playing for one of the biggest clubs in your sport, and don't have any self-motivation, you have problems that no coach can fix.
That aside, I agree that the coach(es) have some responsibility for poor form, of course they do, BUT that responsibility has to be shared with the players. Now if this group of players performed brilliantly under different coaches, then there would clearly be a problem with our coaches. But they didn't. Yes we just got hammered by Chiefs at Sandy Park, but last year they hammered us at HOME. Last season without MOC we got humiliated 43-0 by Glasgow at home and thrashed by them away, we also failed to score against Munster and we scraped a win against Bristol. Yes we had some good performances too, but that's also true of this season. I think by the end of the season we will have a better idea of who should take the large part of the blame in the current Tigers setup.
Do the likes of Genge and Toomua look rubbish since MOC's arrival? Or are they somehow immune to the allegedly terrible coaching that is apparently making other players forget how to perform simple rugby skills such as consistently catching a ball?
We lost the game against Saracens mostly because we dropped the ball far too often. I'm sorry, but if you're an experienced professional rugby player I think you have to take responsibility for your own ability to catch a ball and hold on to it. That's a skill you should have fully learnt subconscious competence in well before you had even heard MOC's name.
Some of the tactics we seem to be employing that really don't work should be blamed on the coaching team, but there's a lot of other stuff going wrong at the moment that the players need to hold their hands up to - and this is stuff that's been going wrong for years.
So who is responsible for enabling our star players to return to form? MOC, the coaching team, and the players themselves.
That aside, I agree that the coach(es) have some responsibility for poor form, of course they do, BUT that responsibility has to be shared with the players. Now if this group of players performed brilliantly under different coaches, then there would clearly be a problem with our coaches. But they didn't. Yes we just got hammered by Chiefs at Sandy Park, but last year they hammered us at HOME. Last season without MOC we got humiliated 43-0 by Glasgow at home and thrashed by them away, we also failed to score against Munster and we scraped a win against Bristol. Yes we had some good performances too, but that's also true of this season. I think by the end of the season we will have a better idea of who should take the large part of the blame in the current Tigers setup.
Do the likes of Genge and Toomua look rubbish since MOC's arrival? Or are they somehow immune to the allegedly terrible coaching that is apparently making other players forget how to perform simple rugby skills such as consistently catching a ball?
We lost the game against Saracens mostly because we dropped the ball far too often. I'm sorry, but if you're an experienced professional rugby player I think you have to take responsibility for your own ability to catch a ball and hold on to it. That's a skill you should have fully learnt subconscious competence in well before you had even heard MOC's name.
Some of the tactics we seem to be employing that really don't work should be blamed on the coaching team, but there's a lot of other stuff going wrong at the moment that the players need to hold their hands up to - and this is stuff that's been going wrong for years.
So who is responsible for enabling our star players to return to form? MOC, the coaching team, and the players themselves.
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Re: MOC to be sacked?
I hope so and get Deano or MJ or even RC back. O'Connor doesn't seem to know his :censored: from his elbow, Tigers are getting all the basics wrong.
Re: MOC to be sacked?
So MOC hasn’t had time yet to assemble the squad he wants, which is why we are a team “in transition”.
Cockers, without the squad he would ideally like, at a struggling club with no great European history, had just qualified them for the quarter finals. He has also had considerably less time at Edinburgh than MOC has had at Tigers.
I am not advocating Cockers return, just observing that the “ not had time yet” excuse is invalid.
A bad workman blames his tools.
Cockers, without the squad he would ideally like, at a struggling club with no great European history, had just qualified them for the quarter finals. He has also had considerably less time at Edinburgh than MOC has had at Tigers.
I am not advocating Cockers return, just observing that the “ not had time yet” excuse is invalid.
A bad workman blames his tools.
Valhalla I am coming!
Re: MOC to be sacked?
Please accept that Edinburgh are playing in the Challenge Cup where the quality of the opposition is very poor. Compare like with like - playing a weak Stadt, London Irish and Krasny Yar hardly compares with Castres, Munster and Racing.
tf22
Re: MOC to be sacked?
Sometimes the tools are genuinely to blame fleabane and do need replacing, sometimes!fleabane wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:55 am So MOC hasn’t had time yet to assemble the squad he wants, which is why we are a team “in transition”.
Cockers, without the squad he would ideally like, at a struggling club with no great European history, had just qualified them for the quarter finals. He has also had considerably less time at Edinburgh than MOC has had at Tigers.
I am not advocating Cockers return, just observing that the “ not had time yet” excuse is invalid.
A bad workman blames his tools.
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Re: MOC to be sacked?
Big difference between the pro 14 and Prem and a massive difference between Challenge cup and Champions cup.fleabane wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:55 am So MOC hasn’t had time yet to assemble the squad he wants, which is why we are a team “in transition”.
Cockers, without the squad he would ideally like, at a struggling club with no great European history, had just qualified them for the quarter finals. He has also had considerably less time at Edinburgh than MOC has had at Tigers.
I am not advocating Cockers return, just observing that the “ not had time yet” excuse is invalid.
A bad workman blames his tools.
Re: MOC to be sacked?
Edinburgh beat Stade Français to qualify. They are a top14 club, although others in that poor were not of a high standard. However the principle remains that he picked up a failing club by the scruff of the neck and made it work. MOC hasn’t, with a club of far greater resources on and off the pitch.
Valhalla I am coming!
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Re: MOC to be sacked?
Principle really isn’t the same IMO he has done well with Edinburgh but it is easier to pick up failing clubs in a easier comps. (Stade are 11th in the top 14 and 3/4 points from relegation),fleabane wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:44 pm Edinburgh beat Stade Français to qualify. They are a top14 club, although others in that poor were not of a high standard. However the principle remains that he picked up a failing club by the scruff of the neck and made it work. MOC hasn’t, with a club of far greater resources on and off the pitch.
Not like Tigers where improving with him in the last 2 seasons either despite all those resources.
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Re: MOC to be sacked?
I think Edinburgh have gone forward this season versus last and Cockers should take credit for that. Tigers have gone backwards, but with a squad that most would say is better on paper than last season's. By the same reasoning, MOC needs to take "credit" for that.RagingBull wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:59 pmPrinciple really isn’t the same IMO he has done well with Edinburgh but it is easier to pick up failing clubs in a easier comps. (Stade are 11th in the top 14 and 3/4 points from relegation),fleabane wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:44 pm Edinburgh beat Stade Français to qualify. They are a top14 club, although others in that poor were not of a high standard. However the principle remains that he picked up a failing club by the scruff of the neck and made it work. MOC hasn’t, with a club of far greater resources on and off the pitch.
Not like Tigers where improving with him in the last 2 seasons either despite all those resources.
I'm not advocating that we have Cockers back - I think he had gone stale at Tigers and we weren't going to win trophies playing the way we were. Nor would I advocate sacking MOC just yet. He should have to the end of the season to prove himself - but that means at least a top 4 finish for me. Failure to do that is a big backward step from last season despite having an improved squad. You have to look at the coaching set-up in IF that occurs.
Re: MOC to be sacked?
Agree, absolutely no point dispensing with MOC before the end of the season. A top 4 finish is a pipe dream now, 5th or 6th is the challenge. Harlequins, Newcastle, Sale, Gloucester are fighting much harder than us for a top 6 spot.Bristol Tiger wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:22 pm Nor would I advocate sacking MOC just yet. He should have to the end of the season to prove himself - but that means at least a top 4 finish for me. Failure to do that is a big backward step from last season despite having an improved squad. You have to look at the coaching set-up in IF that occurs.
The recent performance against the Exiles was a watershed, with our home advantage and talent MOC had more than enough in his locker to secured the TBP and comfortable win. AP games wont come easier than that this season.
Re: MOC to be sacked?
Since all the Pro14 clubs in the ECC look like qualifying does that mean theRagingBull wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:33 pmBig difference between the pro 14 and Prem and a massive difference between Challenge cup and Champions cup.fleabane wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:55 am So MOC hasn’t had time yet to assemble the squad he wants, which is why we are a team “in transition”.
Cockers, without the squad he would ideally like, at a struggling club with no great European history, had just qualified them for the quarter finals. He has also had considerably less time at Edinburgh than MOC has had at Tigers.
I am not advocating Cockers return, just observing that the “ not had time yet” excuse is invalid.
A bad workman blames his tools.
Pro14 is better than the AP?
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Re: MOC to be sacked?
Unfortunately it probably means you can buy success.jgriffin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:43 amSince all the Pro14 clubs in the ECC look like qualifying does that mean theRagingBull wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:33 pmBig difference between the pro 14 and Prem and a massive difference between Challenge cup and Champions cup.fleabane wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:55 am So MOC hasn’t had time yet to assemble the squad he wants, which is why we are a team “in transition”.
Cockers, without the squad he would ideally like, at a struggling club with no great European history, had just qualified them for the quarter finals. He has also had considerably less time at Edinburgh than MOC has had at Tigers.
I am not advocating Cockers return, just observing that the “ not had time yet” excuse is invalid.
A bad workman blames his tools.
Pro14 is better than the AP?
I'm not cynical just experienced