English teams in europe

[stonebob]

Disaster of a weekend for guinness premiership teams ..even though pro 14 teams have a much lower budgets ...dodgy refs?...brexit ?

[Roly]

Disaster of a weekend for guinness premiership teams ..even though pro 14 teams have a much lower budgets ...dodgy refs?...brexit ?

Does your carer know you're on the computer?

[BFG]

Increased competition levels!
Clermont struggling mid-table with a few unusual looking clubs competing amongst the top four in La Rochelle, Montpellier and Lyon.
The Pro14 was already on the up (Glasgow last season) and perhaps their expansion and league split has had an impact whilst the addition of new foreign coaches with sides like Edinburgh and Leinster has maybe added something to the overall level!

[biffer]

English clubs have promotion and relegation so the league is more competitive therefore more strain on players. Pro14 clubs can rest players to prepare for Europe (although a few years ago the AP having promotion and relegation was what gave them a competitive advantage and that's why the Pro12 clubs were struggling)
The seeding being based on league position rather than european record means the Pro14 clubs are seeded too high and results in AP clubs getting more difficult draws (although a few years ago the seeding being based on the european record and not league position was the problem)
Too much money in the game and too many imports has resulted in mercenaries with no club loyalty not willing to play for the jersey, whereas Pro14 players have more of an attachment and are more willing to fight for their team (although a few years ago the extra money and imports were raising the standard and why the Pro12 was falling behind)

Or all of the above could be bull and it might just be the swings and roundabouts of competitive sport.

Although no doubt Nigel Wray will be screaming about something being unfair and demanding a restructure that automatically puts Sarries into the knockout stages before long.

[stonebob]

Probably swings and roundabouts like u say...2 years ago prob14 teams could'ent win a game the bright new dawn of the European cup seems over and teams are focusing on domestic leagues where the money is..

[mol2]

The focus for many may have changed.

The salary cap rules out most English teams competing with the megabucks French teams and to an extent the Irish sides which seem to be a development vehicle for the national side with a number of foreign players to enable the top players to be spread amongst the teams. (Unlike the way Argentina have done it by putting their national side in one “club”

Without a sugar daddy and creative accounting it is hard for clubs to compete in England let alone in Europe too.

[Soggypitch]

The good thing is all the English clubs have the chance to make amends this weekend. Who will do so?

I reckon; Exeter, Bath, Wasps, Sarries, Saints and yes Tigers!!!

Not Quins however.

Am I being optimistic; yes probably, but there will be a big reaction from Tigers, Sarries, Exeter and Saints I think. Wasps and Bath put up good shows anyway and should win at home.

We shall see, in many ways it will define a few seasons....

[doublecarpet]

I'd be staggered if Leinster lost at The Aviva. They look the real deal this season and should go very close to winning the tournament.

[stonebob]

Agree .having stuart lancaster on board was a big help to leinster...wouldent be surprised if leicester win at home this week similar to last year after being thumped in limerick....

[voice of the crumbie]

Agree .having stuart lancaster on board was a big help to leinster...wouldent be surprised if leicester win at home this week similar to last year after being thumped in limerick....

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Hope it's not similar to last year. 18 - 16 this time round won't be good enough if we want to progress beyond the group stage. Winning by more than 7 points so that Munster don't get a bonus point is the minimum we need. I'd like to hope we can get 4 tries as well so that the aggregate score in terms of group points is 5 all with Munster. Then we have to hope that the Racing v Castres score is similar to last week i.e. no winning bonus point. Even then we would need to win away at Castres and at home to Racing to stand a chance of qualifying.

[MrPartridge]

Soggyptitch are you serious that 6 English teams will win this weekend?

Quins - no chance, Europe is done for them and they will put the B team out.

Saracens are in no form and were humiliated at home. Don't see how they win the away fixture ditto Exeter. OK Saints have an incentive with a coaching change but can't see any reason why they are better than last week (and away). Wasps and Tigers probably have decent chances as they are home but both were seriously outplayed last week. Bath were unlucky last week but have since lost Falateu and I seriously question if they can get the job done against a wily team like Toulon. 1 or 2 might shade it but not 5 or 6!

15/1 another European 7-fold humbling...

216/1 your 6 come through... get on...

[Smudge]

People still refer to the Irish "Club sides", which of course is untrue, they are Provinces and receive massive support from the IRU.
They are also not troubled by relegation matters and can rest players accordingly. The fact is, Ireland don't have a single club who could compete with us and the status quo came about to make a competition. This was OK when that put them on a similar footing as our clubs but the huge sums going their way has enabled them to attract and pay some of the worlds great players.
Unless you do a Sarries and cheat on the salary cap, we can't hope to match them. The French clubs have adopted the wendyball "spend spend spend" culture which enabled clubs like Toulon to come from nowhere to be European Champions.
The answer to this uneven contest is to restrict all clubs to an equal budget and police it. SH players will still go for a Riviera lifestyle over the beauties of Leicestershire but as it is, we are greatly disadvantaged.
If they "wont play ball" (sic) we should walk away and let them get on with it. The flight of the crowds and the sponsors would soon bring them back to the table.

[Soggypitch]

MrP I think there is a chance this could happen but won't be putting my mortgage on it

At those odds however I might have a silly £5 (about the price of a pint at WRd!).

[biffer]

People still refer to the Irish "Club sides", which of course is untrue, they are Provinces and receive massive support from the IRU.
They are also not troubled by relegation matters and can rest players accordingly. The fact is, Ireland don't have a single club who could compete with us and the status quo came about to make a competition. This was OK when that put them on a similar footing as our clubs but the huge sums going their way has enabled them to attract and pay some of the worlds great players.
Unless you do a Sarries and cheat on the salary cap, we can't hope to match them. The French clubs have adopted the wendyball "spend spend spend" culture which enabled clubs like Toulon to come from nowhere to be European Champions.
The answer to this uneven contest is to restrict all clubs to an equal budget and police it. SH players will still go for a Riviera lifestyle over the beauties of Leicestershire but as it is, we are greatly disadvantaged.
If they "wont play ball" (sic) we should walk away and let them get on with it. The flight of the crowds and the sponsors would soon bring them back to the table.

A couple of years ago the extra competitive edge was due to the AP having promotion and relegation. It’s nothing to do with any of that, some years one league does well, some years it’s another. It’s called sport.

[Roly]

The answer to this uneven contest is to restrict all clubs to an equal budget and police it.

Or, since nobody seems to want to admit that salary caps are being broken (this is still unproven) and collective rights to investigations are waived, scrap the salary cap.