Line out cheating

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BengalTiger
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Line out cheating

Post by BengalTiger » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:15 pm

Am I alone in noticing a tactic that is becoming more pronounced, namely the hooker shuffling along the touchline until he is lined up with his own payers.
The ball should be thrown in at the mark where the ball went out of play, then the players form up at 90 deg to the touchline 1 mtr either side of the mark.
Yesterday both the Exeter hookers shuffled towards their own players then threw down that line (most of the time) making a challenge for the ball impossible, why is this not picked up and made a free kick as throwing from the wrong place is supposed to be?
It is like wheeling the scrum (or the sideways two-step) that sale perfected a few years ago, it is just plain premeditated cheating.

Mark62
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by Mark62 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:47 pm

Do agree and it is made easier for the hookers by both line outs moving closer to each other and the officials not maintaining the 1 meter gap.
That being said I think I've seen more not straights given this season so far than the whole of the previous 2

Robespierre
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by Robespierre » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:53 pm

Also, I believe that the hooker's boots should not be on or touching the line when the ball is thrown into the line-out. Whenever I look, their feet are across the line, thereby being a few centimetres closer.
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ourla
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by ourla » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:38 pm

I thought everyone was doing it to be honest.

No idea why the officials haven't clamped down on it.

Maybe they need the cream canister the footy refs to make the mark.
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Grimlish
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by Grimlish » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:19 pm

My understanding is that the ball must go down the channel between the two lines. Once the lines form the mark is no longer the critical point and the ball can come in from any point between them. Being a meter apart makes it easier for the hooker to step towards his siderite give an advantage. All teams do it.

The touchline is in touch so, so long as the hooker has his feet touching the line, he is in touch and legal. AFAIAW.

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Re: Line out cheating

Post by tigerburnie » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:58 am

Forwards cheating.........................in the lineout..............................well I never(well actually I did, probably in everyone I stood in if I'm honest)
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Robespierre
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by Robespierre » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:16 am

Grimlish wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:19 pm

The touchline is in touch so, so long as the hooker has his feet touching the line, he is in touch and legal. AFAIAW.
Yes, you're right. It's in football that the touchline is in play - I think. So maybe the hooker can stand on the line to throw the ball in. Are there any refs in this forum or those who are more in touch with the laws than me :smt017
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BengalTiger
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by BengalTiger » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:47 am

Grimlish wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:19 pm
My understanding is that the ball must go down the channel between the two lines. Once the lines form the mark is no longer the critical point and the ball can come in from any point between them. Being a meter apart makes it easier for the hooker to step towards his siderite give an advantage. All teams do it.

The touchline is in touch so, so long as the hooker has his feet touching the line, he is in touch and legal. AFAIAW.
The law says the ball should be thrown in where it went into touch, that is one of the primary jobs of the touch judge to mark that point, but then they just watch as the hooker shuffles off the mark by 1 mtr, if the opposition try to follow him they get penalised for closing the gap!

Tiger_in_Birmingham
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by Tiger_in_Birmingham » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:09 pm

BengalTiger wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:47 am
Grimlish wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:19 pm
My understanding is that the ball must go down the channel between the two lines. Once the lines form the mark is no longer the critical point and the ball can come in from any point between them. Being a meter apart makes it easier for the hooker to step towards his siderite give an advantage. All teams do it.

The touchline is in touch so, so long as the hooker has his feet touching the line, he is in touch and legal. AFAIAW.
The law says the ball should be thrown in where it went into touch, that is one of the primary jobs of the touch judge to mark that point, but then they just watch as the hooker shuffles off the mark by 1 mtr, if the opposition try to follow him they get penalised for closing the gap!
Hookers shuffle away form the mark because referees don't force the defending team to stand in the right place. When the defending time stand on the mark and the attacking team are 1m away, the hooker is going to have to shuffle 0.5m to get to the middle

BengalTiger
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by BengalTiger » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:53 pm

Tiger_in_Birmingham wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:09 pm
BengalTiger wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:47 am
Grimlish wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:19 pm
My understanding is that the ball must go down the channel between the two lines. Once the lines form the mark is no longer the critical point and the ball can come in from any point between them. Being a meter apart makes it easier for the hooker to step towards his siderite give an advantage. All teams do it.

The touchline is in touch so, so long as the hooker has his feet touching the line, he is in touch and legal. AFAIAW.
The law says the ball should be thrown in where it went into touch, that is one of the primary jobs of the touch judge to mark that point, but then they just watch as the hooker shuffles off the mark by 1 mtr, if the opposition try to follow him they get penalised for closing the gap!
Hookers shuffle away form the mark because referees don't force the defending team to stand in the right place. When the defending time stand on the mark and the attacking team are 1m away, the hooker is going to have to shuffle 0.5m to get to the middle
That is not what was happening on Saturday, the Exeter hooker was throwing straight down the line of his own players, the Dom Barrow penalty was a direct result of this as he had to jump so far across he lost balance and fell into their 2nd row!
Tom Young's stayed in the middle, more fool him perhaps, but it was noticeable to the difference it makes to the throw.

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Re: Line out cheating

Post by Grimlish » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:22 pm

Didn’t see the game as am suffering enforced enjoyment elsewhere - Tom usually does it too in my experience

Tiglon
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by Tiglon » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:19 pm

Every hooker has been doing it for as long as I can remember.

There are plenty of laws that simply aren't enforced to a certain point. E.g. edging forward when taking a penalty kick at goal - they'll always get a few inches, but if they get greedy and try to steal a couple of metres they will probably get pulled up on it.

If referees judged every action in a match to the letter of the law, it would just be penalty after penalty. If you want to be pedantic, you can find hundreds of offences in every match which go unpunished. Every match would be endless debates between captains and referee about the laws - you might as well just go and sit in your nearest crown court and watch that instead, if that's what you want.

BengalTiger
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by BengalTiger » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:22 pm

Thanks for the offer but I will carry on watching Rugby, the the ref should say no and award a free kick to the opposition problem solved, it need not become a penalty fest, that is the point of a penalty, to deter offending as well as punishing the offence.

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Re: Line out cheating

Post by Tiglon » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:40 am

BengalTiger wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:22 pm
Thanks for the offer but I will carry on watching Rugby, the the ref should say no and award a free kick to the opposition problem solved, it need not become a penalty fest, that is the point of a penalty, to deter offending as well as punishing the offence, that is where some people who do not understand the big words like deterrent get confused!!
Our difference of opinion is not because I "do not understand big words like deterrent". It is because I disagree that there is a problem that needs to be solved, because in my opinion what happens in the situation described has little or no material influence on a match. It's ok that we disagree on this, and we don't need to resort to personal attacks on each other's understanding of the human language in order to "win" the disagreement.

Scott11
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Re: Line out cheating

Post by Scott11 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:46 pm

45% of all tries come from a lineout now so imo yes it's a problem. You should be able to compete, have the chance to sack etc.

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