Tackle in the air

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Robespierre
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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by Robespierre » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:05 pm

BengalTiger wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm

.. the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
Now there's the subject of a thread that'll attract loads of comment!!!
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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by Clowbeck » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:42 pm

GETHIN EXILE wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:25 pm
Ok this is to start a discussion as it seems that any contact with a man who jumps into the air to catch a ball is leading to at least a penalty unless both players are in the air competing for the ball. I suggest that we outlaw jumping into the air to field high kicks so that the only question becomes had the payer caught the ball before he was tackled. How do others feel about this?
This isnt a new law change nor do I still think it's a hot topic in the game, unlike kicking or diving through the ruck. Players have adapted to this rule (last season and this season) incredibly well. It should be both instinctive and tactics not to tackle a player in the air, it almost doesnt matter, just wait until their feet touch the floor then lay them flat and ideally turn the ball over. Malouf nearly came a cropper on this against Exeter, he should have waited for the tackle rather than arriving late to try and compete for the ball; it was a penalty at most.

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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by Big Dai » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:55 pm

BengalTiger wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm
It is a bit of a nonsense to me, I recall Alesana Tuilagi was cited and banned for raising his knee while being tackled during the word cup as it was judged dangerous, but a player jumping full tilt with a raised forward knee is given a penalty if he contacts one of the opposition! explain that in a rational world!
It is gaining an unfair advantage through a dangerous tactic so should be discouraged.
Malouf to the letter of the law should have been carded but was saved by the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
Where's the "like" button!
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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by Big Dai » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:58 pm

Mark62 wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:51 pm
The game moves on gents, there is nothing wrong with jumping for the ball, the danger comes from the challenger not jumping or not jumping to challenge. We are talking about 1 incident in a game of 80 minutes that was caused by another players inexperince.
There were no other incidents as such that I'm aware of this weekend
The game moves on, life moves on and we have normalisation of deviance. See also line out cheating.
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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by johnthegriff » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:42 pm

I watched the Newcastle v Liverpool soccer match during which a player leaping for the ball led with his leg into the shoulder/head of a standing player in rugby the standing player would have incurred the penalty in soccer it was the airborne man for dangerous play.
If Malouf had jumped and challenged for the ball there would probably have been no penalty but there may have been two injured players. Watching at the ground I thought a clear yellow, watching the TV recording I think maybe the ref and TMO made the right decision. It is a strange law where the consequence, even if an inadvertent offence, decides the punishment. We can all think of cases where the tackler has deliberately gone under a man in the air and also when a man has jumped high but made contact with a player who just happened to be in the way with no obligation to move, the likely outcome is in both instances is a yellow card for the man on the ground or a red if the guy lands head first.

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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by GETHIN EXILE » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:32 pm

When chasing a high kick the attacking player is trying to visualise where the ball will land and a lot of the time, like Malouf on Saturday, realises that they need to slow down at the last minute because the defender has jumped forward to take the ball resulting in a collision while the catcher is still in the air. I would like to see vertical jumps from a standing start to be allowed but running jumps to deemed dangerous. This makes the referees job simpler and all players would be able to time tackles better as the catcher would have to stop before jumping.

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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by ourla » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:55 pm

BengalTiger wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm
Malouf to the letter of the law should have been carded but was saved by the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
Not at all. The player landed on one foot but was unbalanced and fell on to his back. Had he landed on his back directly it would have been a yellow, on his head a red. The law/directive is quite clear. And the ref was spot on.
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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by BengalTiger » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:01 pm

ourla wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:55 pm
BengalTiger wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm
Malouf to the letter of the law should have been carded but was saved by the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
Not at all. The player landed on one foot but was unbalanced and fell on to his back. Had he landed on his back directly it would have been a yellow, on his head a red. The law/directive is quite clear. And the ref was spot on.
Which law is that? this one:-Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play; sanction penalty kick!
The law is clear it is the IRB that has muddied the water, they are not prepared to amend the laws but issue directives and guidelines, this is what leads to confusion.

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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by mightymouse » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:20 pm

I have been arguing this for years and have indeed raised this very subject on here before.

The issue to me is the deliberate flying through the air with knees or studs leading. Meanwhile the poor devil chasing cannot even compete without fear of sanction thereby rendering this element of the game a non contact sport.

Some years ago now the luckless Cross was Red carded in the very act of being stretchered unconcious from the field whilst no doubt the Welsh fullback (can't recall his name) must have sniggered as he realised he had just won the test for his country in the first minute of the game!

From that very moment I knew that this was yet another ridiculous change of law interpretation that has made the modern game frankly ludicrous.

I noticed by the way the young Welsh ref in the Edinburgh game on Friday, made a very good decision when a guy was kneed in the head by a flying catcher and when they did the usual claiming the man on the ground at fault he clearly said "no you came into his space"
Well done him .. a rare moment of sense!

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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by Big Dai » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:37 pm

"like" again.
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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by strawclearer » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:02 pm

mightymouse wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:20 pm
The issue to me is the deliberate flying through the air with knees or studs leading. Meanwhile the poor devil chasing cannot even compete without fear of sanction thereby rendering this element of the game a non contact sport.

I noticed by the way the young Welsh ref in the Edinburgh game on Friday, made a very good decision when a guy was kneed in the head by a flying catcher and when they did the usual claiming the man on the ground at fault he clearly said "no you came into his space"
Well done him .. a rare moment of sense!
:smt023 It still irritates me that Thompstone was carded in the incident with the flying North!
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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by LE18 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:00 pm

Its getting to the point where if there is a flying jumper, everyone else has to run out of the way to avoid him landing on top of you and you getting carded because this reckless player has taken his own safety into hand and runs, jumps and lands on you! Ban running jumping and only allow standing jumping, it would stop a lot of injuries, one day someones going to end up with a broken neck!

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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by ourla » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:46 pm

BengalTiger wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:01 pm
ourla wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:55 pm
BengalTiger wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:00 pm
Malouf to the letter of the law should have been carded but was saved by the partially sighted man with the whistle with his inconsistent incompetence, but that is another thread!
Not at all. The player landed on one foot but was unbalanced and fell on to his back. Had he landed on his back directly it would have been a yellow, on his head a red. The law/directive is quite clear. And the ref was spot on.
Which law is that? this one:-Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play; sanction penalty kick!
The law is clear it is the IRB that has muddied the water, they are not prepared to amend the laws but issue directives and guidelines, this is what leads to confusion.
It's the sanctions we are talking about. The ref gave the penalty. But for foul play there will be sanctions according to the severity of the offence. There is no confusion in this case. The referee stated it at the time so that there was no confusion.
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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by mol2 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:47 pm

If you hit a player in the air then it rightly should be a card.
If you compete then no penalty.

If you jump with knee up it should be a penalty.
If you do a "long jump" like North then you should be penalised for preventing fair competition and or stopping them getting close enough to make an immediate tackle. As it stands the player effectively gets jumped on but gets penalised. It would be difficult to determine what's jumping up and what's jumping forward.

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Re: Tackle in the air

Post by GETHIN EXILE » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:34 pm

It's simple if the player jumps up from a standing start then if there is contact before he lands then it's a penalty with possible further sanctions depending on the situation. If a player runs and jumps then he gives away a penalty if he contacts a stationary player. Attacking kicks would be aimed to land behind the covering defender thus making it afoot race to the ball

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