Tigers v Chiefs

[ourla]

A full-back is frequently faced with two attackers running towards him. He has three options, in order - tackle the player with the ball; try to anticipate and intercept the pass; tackle the player the first player might be going to pass to. Why should the second option be described as 'cynical'? The chances are stacked against him whichever option he goes for so of course he's got to try and 'second guess' what the attackers might do! Give him a break! If the attackers can't manage to get past him because they can't pass the ball accurately enough - why card the poor full-back??!!

It's not cynical the way you put it. But if I phrase it the only way to prevent a try is to try and get a hand on the ball it doesn't sound so good does it. At some point a genuine attempt to intercept becomes a let's just stop the pass somehow. And of course try to make it look as genuine as possible. You also have to give a break to the team that might have gone 20 phases to create that 2 on 1!!!

[teds]

It's an interesting debate. While I don't think Telusa is a cynical player and has the skill set to catch that kind of ball, I kind of felt that the yellow was at least consistent, so no complaints.

On the other hand, if the average number of points scored while the opposition is down to 14 men is 7 points (correct me if I am wrong) then it's pretty much a 14 point decision. That's too much unless the offences were cumulative.

I think I have been more convinced by those who feel the balance may have swung too far in favour of the attacking side. Now all I need to do is remember not to shout for the automatic yellow when it happens to us in attack...

[Doghashadhisday]

In the Gloucester game the Glos player slaps the ball down, a clear deliberate knock on. The ref gives no yellow (I agree no penalty try as there was cover) and goes back to the original penalty for offside. If he was playing advantage and no advantage because of the knock on then why in TV's case did the ref not go back to the original penalty or had he called advantage over.

[Will S]

Because they got an advantage - a try. It’s like Salvi’s yellow card. We were offered a penalty where Salvi offended or we could let Exeter have the lineout on their 5 m line. We chose the lineout as we deemed that the better option but the ref did ask our captain which he would prefer.

I can’t remember the Glos incident but maybe the ref thought the position of the first penalty was the better position in which case getting the second penalty wouldn’t be an advantage.

[Roly]

But you assume TV knew that Exeter had a penalty advantage tomvarndell, I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption.

He'd have to be pretty stupid not to have known really. It was the second penalty advantage in less than two minutes - even if he didn't think the first one was still valid, the second had been awarded just seconds before he contacted the ball. I sincerely hope Tigers players are not that inept.

[BFG]

But you assume TV knew that Exeter had a penalty advantage tomvarndell, I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption.

He'd have to be pretty stupid not to have known really. It was the second penalty advantage in less than two minutes - even if he didn't think the first one was still valid, the second had been awarded just seconds before he contacted the ball. I sincerely hope Tigers players are not that inept.

You ever played the game at that level of pace in front of 25,000 making noise?
I sometimes can't hear myself speak let alone be see the referee constantly, and I'm just standing watching!
Judgemental to the extreme!

[Roly]

But you assume TV knew that Exeter had a penalty advantage tomvarndell, I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption.

He'd have to be pretty stupid not to have known really. It was the second penalty advantage in less than two minutes - even if he didn't think the first one was still valid, the second had been awarded just seconds before he contacted the ball. I sincerely hope Tigers players are not that inept.

You ever played the game at that level of pace in front of 25,000 making noise?
I sometimes can't hear myself speak let alone be see the referee constantly, and I'm just standing watching!
Judgemental to the extreme!

No, but he's a professional player and he has experience of playing in front of crowds like that. When the previous penalty was awarded he was just yards from the referee (he looped round to try the intercept). There is no excuse at that level.

For what its worth, I genuinely do not think it was a deliberate attempt to stop Chiefs scoring (in the sense of a cynical foul). The real crime here was endemic throughout the match, and that was Tigers' seeming inability to number off in defence.

[BFG]

That's where we disagree on this particular match Roly.
I thought Exeter did show up and had moments but Leicester thwarted them, you suggest Exeter underperformed and Tigers got off lightly.
You have to ask the question, how do you stop Exeter, and numbering off too much out wide leaves a side vulnerable to Exeter's power up the middle.
No such thing as the perfect performance!
Credit where it's due Leicester did a job on Exeter, even Baxter admitted this, is he wrong!

[Roly]

That's where we disagree on this particular match Roly.
I thought Exeter did show up and had moments but Leicester thwarted them, you suggest Exeter underperformed and Tigers got off lightly.
You have to ask the question, how do you stop Exeter, and numbering off too much out wide leaves a side vulnerable to Exeter's power up the middle.
No such thing as the perfect performance!
Credit where it's due Leicester did a job on Exeter, even Baxter admitted this, is he wrong!

Well, I've watched the match off recording now and there were at least two occasions (which i missed at the time) where the commentators noted Tigers 'not numbering off' in defence - are they wrong too?

I didn't say Tigers got off lightly - although they may have done with regards to Malouf's contact in the air with Dolman.

Baxter isn't wrong - Tigers did what they had to do to win.

[Will S]

I think Tigers were playing a tighter strategy as Exeter enjoy huge success in repeated quick breaks round the fringes (which they didn't get much joy out of at the weekend). Maybe we trusted our drift defence to cover the numbers? Having gas on both our wings allows you to do this with more comfort and use the touchline as your final man.

[Roly]

Having gas on both our wings allows you to do this with more comfort and use the touchline as your final man.

Absolutely, just ask TV....

[Mark62]

At least a couple of the issues were caused by Malouf shooting off his wing and not trusting the inside defender to drift. This will come with experience

[Will S]

Having gas on both our wings allows you to do this with more comfort and use the touchline as your final man.

Absolutely, just ask TV....

The last time Exeter scored less points in a Premiership game was about a year ago. If we are only prepared to accept a defensive strategy if it nils the current champions then we may struggle.

[BFG]

That's where we disagree on this particular match Roly.
I thought Exeter did show up and had moments but Leicester thwarted them, you suggest Exeter underperformed and Tigers got off lightly.
You have to ask the question, how do you stop Exeter, and numbering off too much out wide leaves a side vulnerable to Exeter's power up the middle.
No such thing as the perfect performance!
Credit where it's due Leicester did a job on Exeter, even Baxter admitted this, is he wrong!

Well, I've watched the match off recording now and there were at least two occasions (which i missed at the time) where the commentators noted Tigers 'not numbering off' in defence - are they wrong too?

I didn't say Tigers got off lightly - although they may have done with regards to Malouf's contact in the air with Dolman.

Baxter isn't wrong - Tigers did what they had to do to win.

I didn't say that you said Tigers got off lightly, I said that you suggest it, and you do it once again regarding Malouf!
If the ref can see fit not to send Malouf off then what is the problem!
Big respect to the Exeter player on that occasion, they are a class team so no surprise, he did not milk it at all and got his leg down where we have seen some appear to take advantage of the situation to get a player sent off!
It was all good IMO!

[westwinds31]

At least a couple of the issues were caused by Malouf shooting off his wing and not trusting the inside defender to drift. This will come with experience

As Austin H said prior to the game, Malouf has a great skill set, can pick a decent line and knows where the try line is. The fundamental requirements for being a wing at this level aren't there yet, it's a case of learning on the job, which hasn't worked out too badly to date, but I suspect Thompstone or Brady will come in when fit. He needs to work on challenging for the high ball, flying out of the line (mentioned above) and the basic pendulum communication of the back 3.

Having said that, he's not far off !