A comparison

[BFG]

They were your exact words lol!

Please show me where it stated fault!
I would never ever attribute fault to any player who tries his hardest, something I would certainly never attribute to him is not trying his hardest!

And another silly comment this time about porridge, realised your error in misquoting me and trying to save face?

[Scott11]

What's the Collins quote then regarding the props and someone winging it in the wider channels? Please explain,if I'm reading it wrong I apologize

[BFG]

What's the Collins quote then regarding the props and someone winging it in the wider channels? Please explain,if I'm reading it wrong I apologize

Fair enough.
For all we know he might've been under orders to be where he was so from outsiders fault can never be attributed accurately.
He would've been best placed on that occasion amongst his tight five group, just my opinion.
Enough said!

[kend]

Does Bateman still do it to the level required?
Did Thacker ever?

Apart from being one of the better players over the last two weekends, improving the throwing in and making things happen on the pitch. What has Thacker ever done for us?

On the basis of Bloomberg's dictum 'In god we trust, everyone else bring data' I had a look at Saturdays game (slow day!).
Thacker came on at 29'. Subsequently there were 10 linouts, 9 were won. One was disrupted but won and subsequently dropped. The one that was lost was in the yellow card period. There were 4 scrums, all won. Two resulted in penalties. One was disrupted but still won. Again this was in the yellow card period.

According to ESPN he made 10 tackles with no misses.

So what is the problem with his hooking?

The potential impact on his teammates, especially when I read comments on social media calling Cole lazy after having to carry him!

On the visual evidence, the impact on his teammates is to make some of them appear pedestrian. If you are suggesting fatigue is a factor, then I'd say being on the back foot and making twice as many tackles as the opposition is likely to be more of an issue than four scrums. I don't see any evidence of Cole carrying Thacker at all. The social media comments about Cole are just stupid, he had a decent game and did what he does. Plus he's hardly had any preseason.

The Collins try was a well worked targeting of the guard at the ruck (I think that was Barrow) and had nothing to do with Thacker.

When he carries those tacklers are still on their feet and over the ball and it takes several men to support the ruck and we get no quick ball.
It looks good but is ineffective to the team

Well, I haven't got the time today to watch it all again to pick over every ruck (!), but there was adequately quick ball from his carries at the 42' to 44' minute mark. In fact it produced some of Tigers best play.

The issue of quick ball and big carrying isn't, IMHO, a dichotomy. You have to pull the defence out of shape before quick ball is of any use. Tigers had quite a bit of ball on Saturday, what they didn't have was any space. By and large they were running at a set defence. Thacker is one of the players that can misshape the defence because his skillset makes him difficult to defend against. He might even chip you. You couldn't, for example, say the same thing about Bateman......

All players have strengths and weaknesses, and I'm not saying Thacker is the answer to every question. McGuigan is a good player and may well be the right choice for other games. But the narrative doesn't (IMHO) match the fact.

[BFG]

Apart from being one of the better players over the last two weekends, improving the throwing in and making things happen on the pitch. What has Thacker ever done for us?

On the basis of Bloomberg's dictum 'In god we trust, everyone else bring data' I had a look at Saturdays game (slow day!).
Thacker came on at 29'. Subsequently there were 10 linouts, 9 were won. One was disrupted but won and subsequently dropped. The one that was lost was in the yellow card period. There were 4 scrums, all won. Two resulted in penalties. One was disrupted but still won. Again this was in the yellow card period.

According to ESPN he made 10 tackles with no misses.

So what is the problem with his hooking?

The potential impact on his teammates, especially when I read comments on social media calling Cole lazy after having to carry him!

On the visual evidence, the impact on his teammates is to make some of them appear pedestrian. If you are suggesting fatigue is a factor, then I'd say being on the back foot and making twice as many tackles as the opposition is likely to be more of an issue than four scrums. I don't see any evidence of Cole carrying Thacker at all. The social media comments about Cole are just stupid, he had a decent game and did what he does. Plus he's hardly had any preseason.

The Collins try was a well worked targeting of the guard at the ruck (I think that was Barrow) and had nothing to do with Thacker.

When he carries those tacklers are still on their feet and over the ball and it takes several men to support the ruck and we get no quick ball.
It looks good but is ineffective to the team

Well, I haven't got the time today to watch it all again to pick over every ruck (!), but there was adequately quick ball from his carries at the 42' to 44' minute mark. In fact it produced some of Tigers best play.

The issue of quick ball and big carrying isn't, IMHO, a dichotomy. You have to pull the defence out of shape before quick ball is of any use. Tigers had quite a bit of ball on Saturday, what they didn't have was any space. By and large they were running at a set defence. Thacker is one of the players that can misshape the defence because his skillset makes him difficult to defend against. He might even chip you. You couldn't, for example, say the same thing about Bateman......

All players have strengths and weaknesses, and I'm not saying Thacker is the answer to every question. McGuigan is a good player and may well be the right choice for other games. But the narrative doesn't (IMHO) match the fact.

I thought the Collins try was a prime example of how confusing players traditional roles because of differing ideas on modern attributes can be exposed.
It's inevitable that pulling players away from their traditional working practices will lead to those kind of errors when trying to piece the jigsaw together.
I suppose I'm a bit of a traditionalist and I see no wrong in that, change just for changes sake seems pointless to me, even more so when you are on a downward spiral, stability is exactly that.
I'd liken the effect of players who are so different from one another in the same position to frequently changing coaches, it upsets continuity and consistency.
He is obviously a very good player and I've said it many times, but he is not the right player for me, not for this team anyway.
There are a couple of others I feel similar about only they are not as lorded.
I don't rate his carrying for reasons stated before and I completely disagree as he is not misshaping defences, the line still exists.
This Tigers team needs one of two things, either several world class forwards of the calibre to run through defences (not crawl) at this level or it needs to get back to quick ball and play a numbers game, we already possess Harrison to deliver the ball, all it needs is the right tactics and personnel which is achievable.

I'd add just so folk get away from the wrong idea that I like to pick on one player, Ben Youngs is another who does not quite fit currently, he is undoubtedly a very good player and is widely accepted that he picks off forwards better than anyone.
If you apply the correct logic, if you don't possess a dominant pack then it would make sense for him not to start and to come on against tiring forwards, if that makes an ounce of sense then it's because it most probably is!