A comparison

[ourla]

I think we can all agree that Tigers played really well against Wasps in the Prem play off semi against Wasps at the Ricoh last season. And we can all agree that we were really poor at Saints on Saturday. So I thought I would take a quick roll call on the personnel to see if there were any clues as to why....

Backs:

Youngs - no change
Ford for Burns
May for Betham
Smith for Tait
Toomua for Williams
Malouf for Thompstone
Veainu - no change

You can split hairs and the strengths and weaknesses of Ford and Burns but I think it's reasonably to say for the purpose of this exercises that they are at the least on a par.

Malouf is clearly at this stage of his career a mark down on Thompstone. But on the flip side May is a massive step on Betham.

Other than that there is no significant change.


Forwards
Genge/Youngs/Cole - no change
Barrow/Kitch - no change
Hamilton for Fitz
O'Connor - same
Kalamafoni for Hamilton

There is no change in the front 5.

Kalamafoni has come in, meaning Hamilton shifts to 6. But that is the only real change.

Bench
Thacker for McGuigan
Bateman - no change
Logo for Balmain
Williams - no change
Ryan for Slater
Harrison - no change
Joe Ford for Jack Roberts
Tait for Smith

Again, not a lot to see. You can argue Ryan isn't Slater but then Logo is better than Balmain. The backs are pretty comparable.

The number of changes isn't that considerable but they are in some key positions (8 and 10) and so arguably there is a little of bedding in to be done.

But in conclusion I see no reason on the personnel for the disparity in the performances.

It's clear I think to most of us though that problems lie in the forwards. The ability is clearing there.

[kend]

Interesting post and I think you are broadly right. It will, however, take a bit of time for new combinations to bed in (and I think you can regard Toomua as effectively new as he hardly played last season). IMHO the loss of Manu is going to be disruptive for a bit because they will have prepared on the assumption that he couldn't possibly be out again so soon!

People, we are two games in with new combinations and yet another head coach. Give it a bit of time.

[Leicestertinytiger]

Good observation, I think we definitely have the players, but something is lacking at the moment.

Still could do with strengthening at lock and maybe a fullback with a better tactical kicking and defensive game than Veainu!

If you look at Sarries, they have 5 international locks and none of ours make that standard. That's the difference in the engine room. Hopefully there is a SA lock going which we can recruit to help strengthen that area.

[BFG]

Good observation, I think we definitely have the players, but something is lacking at the moment.

Still could do with strengthening at lock and maybe a fullback with a better tactical kicking and defensive game than Veainu!

If you look at Sarries, they have 5 international locks and none of ours make that standard. That's the difference in the engine room. Hopefully there is a SA lock going which we can recruit to help strengthen that area.

In that case what a stupid decision to get rid of Slater!
We don't need more outside backs!
We need a lock and a hooker, both combative and physically comfortable playing at this level.

[Scott11]

A hooker? Youngs,McGuigan,Thacker,Bateman and Baumann!

[wellstiger]

Agree in part.
Sorry to point fingers but I believe Dan cole is lacking his usual bite. Tom Youngs for obvious reasons is not at it.
Ellis Genge is really pushing for for regular England selection and is Tigerish in spirit.

Cohesion elsewhere is lacking. As "a comparison" the top teams know they way they wish to play. Any loss of personnel does not detract from game plans.
We are making excuses regarding pre season partnerships and injury lists. We simply do not know the way we wish to play and who dovetails into that plan.
Pointing fingers again what does Barrow and an ageing Kitchener bring to the mix.
Underperformers should be dropped to A team and made to fight for the right to win their jersey back.
I cant see a complete turn a round of fortunes. Yes we might win against the also rans but compete for titles Nahh
I remain as ever Tiger...

[Leicestertinytiger]

Would like to see Williams given the no.4 shirt. Barrow can go to no.5 and call the line out which he did for England age groups. Should bring some much neede power back

[BFG]

A hooker? Youngs,McGuigan,Thacker,Bateman and Baumann!

McGuigan and Youngs injured?
Does Bateman still do it to the level required?
Did Thacker ever?
So where is Baumann, let's see him!

[ourla]

I thought McGuigan got better as the season went on last year and I think it's right to commit to playing Thatcher at hooker. I thought he had a good game on Saturday. We have to stand by Tom IMO despite some mixed form. Overall I don't see a problem at hooker. Same for the props.

Barrow and Kitch have been a bit disappointing this season. I think they need to up their game or benched.

Personally, I thought Hamilton was doing great at 8 later in the season but having now signed Kalamafoni we have to give him a run in the side and see if he can do the job.

Williams has to start on Saturday. I think he's the most powerful guy we've got. It was unfortunate he got yellowed on Saturday which took his impact away a little.

Some guys simply have to find their form.

[sapajo]

It was unfortunate he got yellowed on Saturday which took his impact away a little.

Unfortunate? Stupidity in my book!

[ourla]

It was unfortunate he got yellowed on Saturday which took his impact away a little.

Unfortunate? Stupidity in my book!

It looked a soft yellow and I heard it was accumulative for the team which clearly having just come on Williams wouldn't have been aware of. I am sure he was aware we needed to up the physicality if we were to make inroads.

[Tiglon]

What the comparison shows is inconsistency. Last season the group of players we had showed that they could compete with teams like Bath, but not consistently. One week we'd lose 40-odd to nothing, the next we'd look like a decent team. Looks like very little has changed.

That, is the mark of an average team. You could say the same about Saints, Bath, Glouc and Sale over the last few years - great on their day, but not consistently playing at a high level.

As a further example, the difference between Richie McCaw and Brendan O'Connor is not that McCaw is capable of doing things that O'Connor can't do, it's that he is capable of doing them on a scarily frequent basis. Likewise, this Tigers team is capable of doing everything that Saracens are in a one off game, but they aren't capable of doing it with the same level of frequency.

[BFG]

What the comparison shows is inconsistency. Last season the group of players we had showed that they could compete with teams like Bath, but not consistently. One week we'd lose 40-odd to nothing, the next we'd look like a decent team. Looks like very little has changed.

That, is the mark of an average team. You could say the same about Saints, Bath, Glouc and Sale over the last few years - great on their day, but not consistently playing at a high level.

As a further example, the difference between Richie McCaw and Brendan O'Connor is not that McCaw is capable of doing things that O'Connor can't do, it's that he is capable of doing them on a scarily frequent basis. Likewise, this Tigers team is capable of doing everything that Saracens are in a one off game, but they aren't capable of doing it with the same level of frequency.

Great post!

[kend]

A hooker? Youngs,McGuigan,Thacker,Bateman and Baumann!

Does Bateman still do it to the level required?
Did Thacker ever?

Apart from being one of the better players over the last two weekends, improving the throwing in and making things happen on the pitch. What has Thacker ever done for us?

On the basis of Bloomberg's dictum 'In god we trust, everyone else bring data' I had a look at Saturdays game (slow day!).
Thacker came on at 29'. Subsequently there were 10 linouts, 9 were won. One was disrupted but won and subsequently dropped. The one that was lost was in the yellow card period. There were 4 scrums, all won. Two resulted in penalties. One was disrupted but still won. Again this was in the yellow card period.

According to ESPN he made 10 tackles with no misses.

So what is the problem with his hooking?

[Scott11]

BFG just doesn't like him but has zero stats to back it up!