Tom Youngs yesterday

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ElvastonTiger
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by ElvastonTiger » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:17 pm

If you see a grown man crying in D Lower today it could well be me if Tiffany walks by. Fair play to her and Tom.

Tomvarndell
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by Tomvarndell » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:53 pm

As sad as it is Tom shouldn't be any where near the starting line up at present. Harry came on and did more in his first twenty seconds on the pitch than Tom has done in three games. At what stage do the management realise that this horrid situation that Tom is going through is also killing the Tigers performance? We all feel for the lad, but his performance levels at present are nothing like what we need from our starting 2. I wish the lad well but something needs to change.

Doghashadhisday
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by Doghashadhisday » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:34 pm

Tomvarndell wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:53 pm
As sad as it is Tom shouldn't be any where near the starting line up at present. Harry came on and did more in his first twenty seconds on the pitch than Tom has done in three games. At what stage do the management realise that this horrid situation that Tom is going through is also killing the Tigers performance? We all feel for the lad, but his performance levels at present are nothing like what we need from our starting 2. I wish the lad well but something needs to change.
Really? I was at the game and not seen the match on tv but I thought Tom had a good game, apart from the lineout but then again Thacker did not impress either in that department. Perhaps people only see what they want to see. The scrums did not function well once Tom went off but of course it was Logo and Batemans fault and Harry walks on water. I like Harry but only as an impact sub and quite rightly Tom is first choice. IMHO

Noddy555
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by Noddy555 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:49 pm

I thought his performance was ok and despite loving Harry Thacker I must admit his line out throwing let us down in the second half.

Roly
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by Roly » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:04 am

Doghashadhisday wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:34 pm
Tomvarndell wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:53 pm
As sad as it is Tom shouldn't be any where near the starting line up at present. Harry came on and did more in his first twenty seconds on the pitch than Tom has done in three games. At what stage do the management realise that this horrid situation that Tom is going through is also killing the Tigers performance? We all feel for the lad, but his performance levels at present are nothing like what we need from our starting 2. I wish the lad well but something needs to change.
Really? I was at the game and not seen the match on tv but I thought Tom had a good game, apart from the lineout
Ah, that's alright then, he's only playing really badly in an area fundamental to his position within the team.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by drc_007 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:43 am

Both hookers had problems at the line out, and over the season to date the line out success is just over 70% which is the worst in the league.

The starting pack looked pretty solid in the scrum but as replacements came on it got worse, I'd not try to pin it on one person but it needs to be addressed.

In defence Youngs and Thacker were pretty similar, and in attack Thacker made more of an impression but against a tiring team in a more open game.

The set piece still leaves a lot to be desired, especially the line out. Apparently nearly 50% of tries scored in the premiership are scored from plays from a line out, a fair number from 1st phase. This is now the most important attacking platform.

Roly
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by Roly » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:18 am

drc_007 wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:43 am
Both hookers had problems at the line out, and over the season to date the line out success is just over 70% which is the worst in the league.
You also have to dig fairly deep into the Championship to find worse lineout stats.

Chiefs and Saracens are going to stuff Tigers and no mistake.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

wellstiger
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by wellstiger » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:00 am

Spin this around....
If Both Tom AND Harry couldn't hit their targets in the line out, either the jumpers are not responding to the calls or there's a breakdown in communication.
Tom at present is our Captain, the conversation as to whether he is in a fit place at present is between he himself and MOC.
If the problem is, as I have alluded to ,is one of miscommunication at lineout time, then that has to be fixed and again down to MOC and his coaching team.
Rightly or wrongly the buck stops not with Tom but with MOC. He selects the team.
I prefer to belong to a club that supports Tom and Tiffany rather than crucify him when evidence is not entirely pointing to a failure solely down to himself.

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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by Tomvarndell » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:48 am

Forget about the lineout. There's more than just one problem there.

His performances in open play are a shadow of his old self. Lost the ball in contact at least twice on Saturday, one in a very promising position and the days of him regularly breaking the gain line are long gone. Harry came on and straight away he offers far more in both defence and attack. We need more from our starting hooker. Hopefully George will be available very soon.

ourla
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by ourla » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:28 am

I think he is playing reasonably well right now and I've no issue with his selection.

The line out is not just down to the hooker. And to my all be it untrained eye there have been multiple issues causing their failure.
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LE18
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by LE18 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:01 pm

Regarding Tom Youngs, his main problem is his throwing in, everywhere else he is doing his job well, all crash ball carriers occasionally lose the ball, its inevitable with the ferocity of the defense. Maybe this might improve now Blaze has gone?
Regarding Harry, I have said many times before that he is not big enough to play hooker, that's my opinion, many disagree!
Harry is a superb loose player, he carries, and some times he also drops the ball, he wins loads of loose ball, he is very very good in those open positions but is that to the determent of his job as hooker?
When Harry came on on Saturday, I think at the first scrum, Dan Coles went down, later when Logo and Bateman came on, many of you are saying Bateman and Logo were poor, who was it really?
Now I watched Harry binding in the scrum, usually a hooker can bind under his props arm pits, with Dan propping, Harry was binding near to Dan's shoulder blade, when Logo came on he could only reach Logos number plate, he was binding effectively in the middle of his back. When Hibbard came on, our scrum went backwards, he had Harry on toast!
Now I never played in the front row, but to me as an OAP spectator, I think that a scrum functions much better when the front row is bound tight?
Again I have nothing against Harry, but I do think all those who cry foul must seriously consider his ability as purely a hooker, and if we need a replacement hooker for the moment, then please give Bateman a try in his proper position. Harry to my mind must fight for a No 7 shirt, and good luck to him there.

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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by BFG » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:29 pm

Good post LE18, and I'd add that there is nothing worse than having your upper body pummelled at scrums to ruin your throwing.
Arms that can quite literally feel like they are not attached properly.
A hooker these days must be physically comfortable in the position.

johnthegriff
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by johnthegriff » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:09 pm

I agree that a scrum functions better when the binding is tight. I played all across the front row (admittedly at a much lower level) but I preferred a hooker I could get my arms round. The front row has gone ok so far this season when we have our starting props, I will be glad when Cilliers is back so Mulipola can cover loosehead where I think he is better, or maybe it is now time to give Betts his opportunity as I think he is a fine prospect. I can't comment on what scrimmaging does to your throwing in arms as when I played wingers generally did that job, seemed a better system to me they didn't have much to do most of the match why give the job to a player already working for eighty minutes.

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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by Scuttle » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:46 pm

Now there's a thought to conjure....johnthegriff with his arms around a hooker! :smt007 . I wonder what Mrs Griff would say?
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Doghashadhisday
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Re: Tom Youngs yesterday

Post by Doghashadhisday » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:17 pm

Scuttle wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:46 pm
Now there's a thought to conjure....johnthegriff with his arms around a hooker! :smt007 . I wonder what Mrs Griff would say?
You beat me to it :smt003

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