The Back Row

[maroontrunks]

Sorry to distract from the latest chapter of Manu's injury saga, but one of the key issues being discussed on a couple of different threads was the perceived lack of quality in the back row of the scrum.
What surprised me was the amount of negativity towards Kalamafoni, who I thought put in a pretty decent shift with lots of carrying on Sunday. Regarding Ryan, rewatching the game's TV coverage, I struggled to notice him making much impact on the game, while I thought O'Connor was one of the best players for Tigers.
I certainly felt that as a whole, the contribution of the forwards was not what it needed to be, but the solution proposed by a lot of people seems to be chopping and changing the selection of players.
The key issues seem to be the 1) the malfunctioning lineout: is this a player or coaching issue? 2) lack of physicality in the maul: this has been a persistent problem and I would be inclined to think that coaching is more important than the physical bodies on the pitch 3) lack of go forward on the pitch: I certainly thought Bath were much more aggressive in the forwards and were inclined to go for a physical battle rather than trying to create clever moves within the backs. I think this could be a simple matter of what gameplan the team need to emphasise, and considering that the AP has only got more physical since MO'C was last at Tigers, perhaps he underestimates the amount of emphasis on winning a physical contest will be required before the backline can really be brought into play.
With the caveat that perhaps selection isn't as important as the game plan, I thought I'd offer my inexpert opinion of what different back row players bring to the table and invite others to offer their opinions as well.
Kalamafoni: A carrier, something which I feel we've been lacking. Not too much of a ball hogger in the Waldrom model, but seems to be suffering in the eyes of some supporters by not being Faletau or Vunipola.
O'Connor: Underrated by some, I feel he's a very important player, an out and out 7 who I think could benefit from the presence of big hitters in the second row and at 6 to really operate. He's also a superb link player which will be important if we want to score lots of tries.
Ryan: At the moment, I an underwhelmed but I have heard that he was considered to have had great potential at Leinster. Perhaps he was quiet simply because he's still not up to speed on how to operate in the Tigers pack?
Williams: Perplexed at his continued relegation to the bench. I get that he drops the ball a lot but his aggression and physicality seems like just what the doctor ordered given our lack of competitiveness in that department against Bath. Is his future considering Kitchener's form and Fitzgerald's injury, in the second row?
Croft: It's hard to know if he has a future as a first choice, has injury essentially relegated him to second team status. His lineout acumen is missed, but does he have the workrate expected of a 6 in the current climate?
Mapapalangi: I haven't seen him play yet, what does he offer?
Evans: Much has been talked about his potential. Will Tigers offer him the opportunity to show what he can do? He has had a recent injury and I guess he now needs to work hard to be in the reckoning against Curry and Underhill.
Fitzgerald: Primarily a lock, and with Slater at Gloucester will we see him in the back row again when he's back from injury?
Hamilton He's become a bit of a fan favourite. Is he preferred at 6 or 8 and is his versatility meaning he's relegated to the bench? If we're looking for a big and back five should we be looking at: 4)Barrow 5) Williams 6)Hamilton 7)O'Connor 8)Kalamafoni
Thacker Personally I can't see him playing in the back row again unless injury forces it.

[Scott11]

The back row as well as the replacements is always about two things for me,balance and then impact. MOC git the latter right but the former badly wrong! Our back row looked like one that had turned up at a junior tournament and borrowed a couple of layers off different teams,complete strangers even if BOC and Kalamofoni had good individual games. Hamilton came on a treat last season and imo is our best back row lineout option bar Croft,he gets up very quick. Williams is a beast carrier and tackle big, Kalamofoni plays 6 too so why not let Mike empty the tank and then replace him with impact. Mistake from MOC,let's hope he learns from it!

[JP14]

I think Falatau was overrated on his performance on Saturday, Kalamafoni has got nice hands but needs to be more thirsty to carry like he was against Treviso

[JP14]

BOC is a very good out and out 7, wonder if EJ is interested in him considerin his 3 years residency is coming up soon. I also really like Will Evans.

Luke Hamilton is one of my favourite players at Tigers but I see him as a six and I think could be useful as a secondary receiver and we k of his strength in close quarter ball-carrying. Mike Williams for me is our 5 for me this season with Kitch not too good at the moment.

[Scott11]

Im very surprised EJ has never looked at BOC ,good at the BD and a very good link player. He took the player towards the touchline Sunday before committing him to the tackle then offloading back inside for the first try,the vast majority of English back row forwards would've cut in and took contact. I rate him.

[LondonRich]

He's from New Zealand and played U20's. Makes him ineligible?

[Tiglon]

Grandmother from Hull. I don't think playing U20s makes any difference.

I don't think he's shown enough to suggest he is the best option for England now, and at almost 28 he isn't very likely to improve much so can hardly be described as the future either. Jones has been very clear on preferring to give opportunities to the kids with bags of potential over late twenty-somethings who are good club players.

[BFG]

I think there is a lot of overrating going on currently!
BOC hasn't done enough to warrant international recognition IMO.
They are all very good obviously but there is absolutely nothing that would worry me in that pack apart from Mike Williams but unfortunately the bloke has been disrupted by injuries.
I have a lot of admiration for the way Luke Hamilton plays the game but he is no monster.
Genge's attitude is the stand out but he can't do it all and he is still very young for a prop.
We shall see if they can combine and grow together over the next few weeks but I think it's wrong to pick on the back row only, we just lack that extra leadership and quality that can bind the rest together up front on the whole.
Slater was a mistake to allow to go IMO, and I don't really understand Rizzo being loaned out, these players have an edge and it matters IMO.
Bath had that edge to them on Sunday.

[Scott11]

Talk about Overrating when Haskell has 70 odd caps

[BFG]

Talk about Overrating when Haskell has 70 odd caps

Precisely!
Everyone has their own opinion, mine is that Leicester are just a bit short of the kind of top end quality that can bring so much and I think it could well bring out more in what we currently have, it's a kind of so close and yet so far scenario IMO.
I was so surprised at Slater going and even more so that no-one of that ilk has been brought in!

[Scott11]

Slater was our best lock when fit imo. I really like the look of Wells,hes 25? now it's time for him to show what he can do,by the look of him in the AWC and the time he got in the AP last season he looks ready to me.

[BFG]

Slater was our best lock when fit imo. I really like the look of Wells,hes 25? now it's time for him to show what he can do,by the look of him in the AWC and the time he got in the AP last season he looks ready to me.

Yes why not, it's too soon to be throwing caution to the wind but we won't ever know if he doesn't get a chance.

[Tiglon]

If Wells isn't ready at 25 he probably never will be. I actually think Haskell is exactly the kind of player we could do with in the current Tigers pack, but each to their own

[BFG]

If Wells isn't ready at 25 he probably never will be. I actually think Haskell is exactly the kind of player we could do with in the current Tigers pack, but each to their own

Well more than one international coach saw fit to add to Haskell's caps.
I do think you are right in terms of muscle and leadership.
Just don't expect Mensa to come calling!

[Scott11]

I like Haskell and BFG knows im the king of exaggeration lol but barring the 2008 NZ tour when he played with Rees and Narraway in the back row and the first two tests in Oz I'm struggling to recall any standout international games from him whereas I can give you plenty from Robshaw,Billy V even Tom Wood.