New Signings !!!! I am totally under whelmed

[TheRock]

Why are people assuming we won't make anymore signings. There is no rule to say we have to announce every signing in one day.

I think you have a right to be totally underwhelmed with the majority of our squad..it is hard to not be negative because bar Veainu/Toomua/Genge (I would write Manu but I am worried we will never see him roaring again) we do not have an exciting squad...the lack of young players we have coming through especially in the backs compared to others is also pretty embarrassing...

Add to that the fact our new 10 cannot kick makes it very worrying..it has now been so long bar Toomua we signed someone who has real class

For me: Props- Very Good
Hookers-Good
Locks-Good but lack top end quality
Backrow-Average
Halfbacks-Very good frontline lacking quality after that
Centres- Very Good if both fit but quality after that is poor
Wings- Good- No wingers that can create magic though
Fullback- Not enough quality behind Veainu

Why do we need to have an exciting squad? As long as it wins I don't really care how exciting our squad is.

When it comes to young players you can't have it both ways, in a previous thread you said we needed a new 7 as we had to have an international with a good club player as BOC as backup. How would that allow a young player like Evans to break into the first team?


As far as what we need going forward, MOC is said to be looking at two centres and an 8. We are also likely to release a couple of backrowers.
Personally I think if we get those signings right we have a squad which can compete.

[JackFlashJonny]

As per usual you haven't read what I wrote and just take from it what you want to serve your own riposte...

Who said excitement meant great tries..Mako Vunipola is exciting and rarely scores

I said we need international quality not internationals...We do not have either that or anyone of note coming through our academy bar Evans who whilst injured last season hasn't exactly shown he is the next find

An 8 and two centres I will be happy with but I doubt any of them will be anyone of note...if they are young and have potential then I will be happy but if they are 28 plus and not made a breakthrough at their current club then I will be underwhelmed

[ourla]

As per usual you haven't read what I wrote and just take from it what you want to serve your own riposte...

Who said excitement meant great tries..Mako Vunipola is exciting and rarely scores

I said we need international quality not internationals...We do not have either that or anyone of note coming through our academy bar Evans who whilst injured last season hasn't exactly shown he is the next find

An 8 and two centres I will be happy with but I doubt any of them will be anyone of note...if they are young and have potential then I will be happy but if they are 28 plus and not made a breakthrough at their current club then I will be underwhelmed

You aren't making any sense. International quality but not internationals? Excitement doesn't equal scoring tries? How many 28 years have we signed that are established Prem level?

[TheRock]

As per usual you haven't read what I wrote and just take from it what you want to serve your own riposte...

Who said excitement meant great tries..Mako Vunipola is exciting and rarely scores

I said we need international quality not internationals...We do not have either that or anyone of note coming through our academy bar Evans who whilst injured last season hasn't exactly shown he is the next find

An 8 and two centres I will be happy with but I doubt any of them will be anyone of note...if they are young and have potential then I will be happy but if they are 28 plus and not made a breakthrough at their current club then I will be underwhelmed

Could say exactly the same about yours. At no point did I say anything about excitement meaning scoring tries. I simply pointed out you don't win anything because you have the most exciting squad. I'm sure Sale fans are very excited about the young players they have coming through as well as some of there signings. That doesn't mean Sale are going to better than Tigers.

[JackFlashJonny]

As per usual you haven't read what I wrote and just take from it what you want to serve your own riposte...

Who said excitement meant great tries..Mako Vunipola is exciting and rarely scores

I said we need international quality not internationals...We do not have either that or anyone of note coming through our academy bar Evans who whilst injured last season hasn't exactly shown he is the next find

An 8 and two centres I will be happy with but I doubt any of them will be anyone of note...if they are young and have potential then I will be happy but if they are 28 plus and not made a breakthrough at their current club then I will be underwhelmed

You aren't making any sense. International quality but not internationals? Excitement doesn't equal scoring tries? How many 28 years have we signed that are established Prem level?

The first part is pretty simple..international quality is Ewers, Williams, Armand, Rhodes, Young, Simmonds and the such that just haven't made the breakthrough for whatever reason yet but could or are about to..

To be an exciting player you don't need to score tries..as the Mako case in point

Your last point makes little to no sense...

[Will S]

What would be interesting is to look at the starting line ups of the top 4 sides and see how many Tigers would make it in to each team. If we took Tigers v's Exeter which of the following Tigers would lose their spot?

1: Genge
2: Youngs
3: Cole
4: Barrow
5 Kitchener
6: Williams
7: BOC
8: Kalamafoni
9: Youngs
10: Ford
11: JPP
12: Toomua
13: Manu
14: Thompson
15: Veainu

[sapajo]

What would be interesting is to look at the starting line ups of the top 4 sides and see how many Tigers would make it in to each team. If we took Tigers v's Exeter which of the following Tigers would lose their spot?

1: Genge
2: Youngs
3: Cole
4: Barrow
5 Kitchener
6: Williams
7: BOC
8: Kalamafoni
9: Youngs
10: Ford
11: JPP
12: Toomua
13: Manu
14: Thompson
15: Veainu

Kalamafoni (TTE)? JPP (Nowell)? Williams (Armand)?

[ourla]

The first part is pretty simple..international quality is Ewers, Williams, Armand, Rhodes, Young, Simmonds and the such that just haven't made the breakthrough for whatever reason yet but could or are about to..

If they were international quality they would be internationals. We can all have our opinions about who or isn't international quality of course. But that works for our players aswell as there's. Two of our stand out players of the season (Burns and Thompstone) are not currently considered international quality. McCaffrey is generally regarded as a great signing for us but is not an international. And so on. Ironically, Matt Tait for example, is an international!

To be an exciting player you don't need to score tries..as the Mako case in point

True but then what makes any player exciting. The fact that are very good at what they do I would guess. But surely the whole point is to buy players who don't seem to be very good but then train them or put them into a system that makes them very good.

Your last point makes little to no sense...

In was in response to your comment.

[sam16111986]

Underwhelmed? What did you expect? There aren't big name players available at the money we have to spend at the minute.

I've heard the forum moan we need:

A big ball carrying 8;

So we've signed Sione Kalamafoni a 19 stone Tongan international with a good track record in the Premiership. Injury problems limited him this season but before that a Gloucester mainstay and formerly a player of the season there.

More physicality in the backrow;

So we've signed an experienced but still young enough Irish international who can play 6, 7 and 8 and is a big physical player in attack and defence as well as a lineout jumper.

Some speed out wide;

We sign Holmes who's been scoring for fun in the Championship as a young project player. He's got bags of pace and a good skillset.

There will be more but for starters these players offer solutions to positions of need.

[FrontRowUnionMember]

If it's true we are looking at two more centres plus a No8, great.
I think we need someone who can bring an explosive physical presence at 12, then someone who can unlock a defence, be it a playmaker 10/12, or even just a dynamic outside runner at 13. I know he's been getting some negative views on here, but I wouldn't be against Eastmond, would fill the distributor role at 12, and also alternatively be a dangerous runner at 13 with footwork and pace. Add in a gainline busting 12, a big Polynesian maybe, and I think we'd have a decent balance to our backline.
Assuming the 8 may well be a project like Mapapalangi. Can't see it being a high profile international player.
To be looking at two centres and an 8, would this suggest further departures? One player at risk in my opinion is Macafferey. I rate him, but he's not a hard hitting 6, not a groundhog 7, not a big carrying 8, more of a bit of decent all rounder. With Williams, Hamilton, and now Ryan vying for 6 shirt, O'Connor, Evans and Ryan battling for the 7 shirt, and Kalamafoni, Hamilton plus another 8 fighting for the 7 spot, Macafferey looks expendable. Sad to say, as he's always been Quality in my opinion, but just doesn't leap out as a banker starter. Equally Croft could be seen as expendable? In the backs, Betham going justifies one centre, does a second centre require further squad cutting?

One other area we still need to add for me, is prop. Losing Ayerza, Balmain and Brugnara leaves us a little lighter than I'd like. Betts is a talent, but one prop to replace all three is risky. He replaces Balmain for me, as the fringe TH behind the internationals. Need to add at least one more. I rate mulipola highly as a player, but I don't have a lot of faith in his durability.

Eastmond, a Pacific Islander explosive 12/13, Mapapalangi, and a prop? Perfect.

[Tiglon]

I for one am fairly happy with how the squad is shaping up for next season. Ryan and Kalamafoni go a long way to addressing the lack of hard hitting, ball carrying back rowers.

Joe Ford is an ok backup for George. Jonah Holmes is one of those signings that could turn out to be a bargain. Signing the top points scorer and top try scorer from the Championship seems like a decent gamble.

Probably still lacking a bit of depth at centre, especially considering Manu's injury history.

Exciting players? Genge, Kalamafoni, Ben Youngs, George Ford, Toomua, Manu, Veainu... I'm always excited to watch those guys play rugby. International quality? In almost every position our first choice has been capped or at least involved in international squads. There's no reason why we shouldn't compete for the title next season.

As for London Irish's recruitment, well, you'd expect that having just spent a season in the Championship they'd have a LOT more space in the salary cap than us, no? And while their signings look good for them and bode well for survival, they're hardly the sort of signings that will get them up to the top end of the table. Hard to pick a relegation favourite next season!

And big name signings... surely Exeter and Wasps (not to mention Toulon and Racing) have this season proved that splashing cash on superstars is not necessarily the best way to gain success. I suspect Exeter will have much more stability at the top because they've worked on instilling an ethos in everything they do, whereas Wasps seem happy to have a carousel of mercenary superstars and have to rebuild almost every year.

The last few games of last season were very promising for Tigers, and Matt O'Connor was very successful here last time. Things are looking up, I'm not underwhelmed at all.

[tigerburnie]

I dare say our new signing wouldn't think much of some of the fans on here either, underwhelmed wouldn't cover it. I recall the same said when Steve Mafi joined us, some people have no idea at all. How about welcoming the players and giving them a chance to prove themselves, or clearing off and supporting Toulon if you want a Harlem Globetrotters/Chelsea to support.

[JackFlashJonny]

I would say it is pretty clear Exeter are where they are because of their fantastic young players coming through and forcing their way into the first team...Slade, Hill, Townsend, Simmonds, Williams and LCD...bar Thacker, Evans and Wells where are Tigers academy graduates?

I am mainly just worried about the lack of real quality in the back row..to have no player near any consistent international honours or with says a lot as this is arguably the most important area on the pitch

Tigerburnie- What an ridiculous comment...people can say they are underwhelmed this does not mean they have no clue...it is not like people do not want to be proved wrong just some of us have rugby knowledge outside of the Tiger glasses bubble and can see our squad does not match up..hence our results...no-one wants to support Toulon or the such we just want to see Tigers move in the right direction

Not all of us can blindly praise a team that is below par just for the sake of it-Maybe that is something we could learn from you Scots

[BFG]

I dare say our new signing wouldn't think much of some of the fans on here either, underwhelmed wouldn't cover it. I recall the same said when Steve Mafi joined us, some people have no idea at all. How about welcoming the players and giving them a chance to prove themselves, or clearing off and supporting Toulon if you want a Harlem Globetrotters/Chelsea to support.

Just a lack of belief, given the past few seasons and all the talk and how it's played out I think it's fair to be doubtful especially those who pay to stand come rain or shine week in and week out, but at the same time I agree with your point about giving new players a chance, just not the way you say it!

[TheRock]

If it's true we are looking at two more centres plus a No8, great.
I think we need someone who can bring an explosive physical presence at 12, then someone who can unlock a defence, be it a playmaker 10/12, or even just a dynamic outside runner at 13. I know he's been getting some negative views on here, but I wouldn't be against Eastmond, would fill the distributor role at 12, and also alternatively be a dangerous runner at 13 with footwork and pace. Add in a gainline busting 12, a big Polynesian maybe, and I think we'd have a decent balance to our backline.
Assuming the 8 may well be a project like Mapapalangi. Can't see it being a high profile international player.
To be looking at two centres and an 8, would this suggest further departures? One player at risk in my opinion is Macafferey. I rate him, but he's not a hard hitting 6, not a groundhog 7, not a big carrying 8, more of a bit of decent all rounder. With Williams, Hamilton, and now Ryan vying for 6 shirt, O'Connor, Evans and Ryan battling for the 7 shirt, and Kalamafoni, Hamilton plus another 8 fighting for the 7 spot, Macafferey looks expendable. Sad to say, as he's always been Quality in my opinion, but just doesn't leap out as a banker starter. Equally Croft could be seen as expendable? In the backs, Betham going justifies one centre, does a second centre require further squad cutting?

One other area we still need to add for me, is prop. Losing Ayerza, Balmain and Brugnara leaves us a little lighter than I'd like. Betts is a talent, but one prop to replace all three is risky. He replaces Balmain for me, as the fringe TH behind the internationals. Need to add at least one more. I rate mulipola highly as a player, but I don't have a lot of faith in his durability.

Eastmond, a Pacific Islander explosive 12/13, Mapapalangi, and a prop? Perfect.

I know we have lost a few props but it doesn't appear a position we're looking to strengthen.
As for centres we've been linked with Tom Daly from Leinster another player MOC would know well.
Personally I wouldn't mind him and eastmond. Also Eastmond is injured so fits the criteria for a tigers player.
Also when I said about two centres and an 8 that was based purely on speculation from various places, no inside knowledge unfortunately, so could be completely wrong.