Watching the Lions

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trendylfj
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by trendylfj »

Roly wrote:
trendylfj wrote:This my 2nd Lion's tour to NZ and I am loving it the same as before. Yes there is an issue of not much rest or injury for the players involved, Yes it is a money raising enterprise, Yes the NZ kids are loving it for the 1st time in their young lives, Yes many of them will strive even more to be an AB, Yes the local economy flourishes for a short period of time and finally Yes the British Consulate uses it successfully to create more interest in British products and services at each venue. All of which goes to make this an experience which should not be closed down unless the players want it and I do not hear many of them turning down the opportunity to tour.
Now in Queenstown for 4 days rest!!!!
I'd hardly expect someone who'd paid a great deal of money to go and watch something they personally think is worth it to suggest it was a bad thing.

Or to appreciate the wider implications.
Are you saying because I enjoy something I am incapable of understanding the wider implications??

Indoctrination is the inculcation of rational or irrational ideas to the extent that a rational idea to the contrary is unacceptable to the person concerned some great learned thinker once said,

Of course there will be injuries but also players will learn from playing alongside other players who they do not come into contact with regularly and enhance their development, experience and skills.

Perhaps oh great and learned one you could explain your evidential source for some of your statements such as: a player's development could (and often is) put back by 'up to 8 months' after a Lions tour or are they just your "picked out of the air statistics" Which players are you thinking about????

I can think of several players who have been enhanced their careers, skill levels and experience by their participation and I am sure that you can quote some who have had their careers put back because of injury but doesn't that apply to every competition they play in. Our own Martin Corry would be a prime example.

As for the money - no it hasn't cost me a great deal of money as I have organised and booked everything myself and it has only cost me slightly more than 2 x 14 day holidays and 1 x 7 day holiday if taken as 1 x 5 week holiday I am now on. I normally take those holidays each year which I will now not be taking this year. I accept that many people cannot take so many holidays each year as I do and would say that it is expensive - it is called planning (over a year) and choices. My 5 weeks in NZ has cost me less than £4000 - money I would have spent on my normal 3 holidays.
Hehehehehehehehe
wormus
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by wormus »

trendylfj wrote:
Roly wrote:
trendylfj wrote:This my 2nd Lion's tour to NZ and I am loving it the same as before. Yes there is an issue of not much rest or injury for the players involved, Yes it is a money raising enterprise, Yes the NZ kids are loving it for the 1st time in their young lives, Yes many of them will strive even more to be an AB, Yes the local economy flourishes for a short period of time and finally Yes the British Consulate uses it successfully to create more interest in British products and services at each venue. All of which goes to make this an experience which should not be closed down unless the players want it and I do not hear many of them turning down the opportunity to tour.
Now in Queenstown for 4 days rest!!!!
I'd hardly expect someone who'd paid a great deal of money to go and watch something they personally think is worth it to suggest it was a bad thing.

Or to appreciate the wider implications.
Are you saying because I enjoy something I am incapable of understanding the wider implications??

Indoctrination is the inculcation of rational or irrational ideas to the extent that a rational idea to the contrary is unacceptable to the person concerned some great learned thinker once said,

Of course there will be injuries but also players will learn from playing alongside other players who they do not come into contact with regularly and enhance their development, experience and skills.

Perhaps oh great and learned one you could explain your evidential source for some of your statements such as: a player's development could (and often is) put back by 'up to 8 months' after a Lions tour or are they just your "picked out of the air statistics" Which players are you thinking about????

I can think of several players who have been enhanced their careers, skill levels and experience by their participation and I am sure that you can quote some who have had their careers put back because of injury but doesn't that apply to every competition they play in. Our own Martin Corry would be a prime example.

As for the money - no it hasn't cost me a great deal of money as I have organised and booked everything myself and it has only cost me slightly more than 2 x 14 day holidays and 1 x 7 day holiday if taken as 1 x 5 week holiday I am now on. I normally take those holidays each year which I will now not be taking this year. I accept that many people cannot take so many holidays each year as I do and would say that it is expensive - it is called planning (over a year) and choices. My 5 weeks in NZ has cost me less than £4000 - money I would have spent on my normal 3 holidays.
A totally expected response from Roly - Poly, live a life you cannot take your stash of cash to the crematorium! Like Trendylfj I am too in New Zealand having a great time touring and watching certain matches, the welcome from the people here is fantastic and wearing a Lions top has given me great discounts through their love of the game, my camper van was charged $7 local pick up rate rather than the $35 on a ferry crossing. I don't think you would appreciate the great lifestyle out here and the intensity of their sport culture either, if it's not rugby it's sailing, hockey, cricket .
Enjoy your stay too Trendylfj..... :smt045
drc_007
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by drc_007 »

Lions: L Halfpenny (Wales); A Watson (England), J Davies (Wales), B Te'o (England), G North (Wales); J Sexton, C Murray (both Ireland); M Vunipola, J George (both England), T Furlong (Ireland), M Itoje, G Kruis (both England), P O'Mahony (capt, Ireland), S O'Brien (Ireland), T Faletau (Wales).

Replacements: K Owens (Wales), J McGrath (Ireland), K Sinckler (England), I Henderson (Ireland), S Warburton (Wales), G Laidlaw (Scotland), O Farrell, E Daly (both England).

Maori All Blacks: J Lowe; N Milner-Skudder, M Proctor, C Ngatai, R Ioane; D McKenzie, T Kerr-Barlow; K Hames, A Dixon (capt), B May, J Wheeler, T Franklin, A Ioane, E Dixon, L Messam.

Replacements: H Elliot, C Eves, M Renata, L Price, K Pryor, B Hall, I West, R Thompson.

Lions pack could be the Test team. Suspect it is Sexton's last chance to shine.
Starburst
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by Starburst »

trendylfj wrote:[ My 5 weeks in NZ has cost me less than £4000 - money I would have spent on my normal 3 holidays.
My wife has just made me spend more for 2 weeks All Inclusive in Mexico. I'd rather be out in NZ watching the Lions
Starburst
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by Starburst »

Strong looking side but a few players who need to play better than they have before. Sexton, Halfpenny (shame Hogg is out), JD who hasn't played much.

I like the look of the backrow but do feel for Tipuric / Stander. Warburton needs a massive game when he comes on if he's to start the tests. Or alternatively Mahoney or O'Brien would need a mare.

I'd start with Jamie George at hooker but Owens must be close.

I think Laidlaw would need a massive game if he's even going to get on the bench. Webb has looked sharp and pushed Murray who has looked on top form.
Suz
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by Suz »

Farrell has been ruled out due to an injury in training. Biggar back on the bench
Hopefully Farrell will be fit for the tests.
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G.K
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by G.K »

cpwhelan wrote:I see the business and development aspect of the tour a topic for another day but when the Lions returned from their last NZ tour 12 years ago, the key learning points were body position at the breakdown and basic passing/catching skills.
12 years on and despite all the money poured into coaching, we are still burdened with those main skill deficits!
Is it culture? Is it the style of play encouraged by the Aviva? Is it key personnel? What I'm saying is that we don't appear to have learned the appropriate lessons.
Well about half the squad don't even play in the Aviva, so strange excuse.
Nowadays referees decide matches, players by how much.
cpwhelan
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by cpwhelan »

Good point re. Aviva - maybe I should have written 'Northern hemisphere!'
drc_007
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by drc_007 »

G.K wrote:
cpwhelan wrote:I see the business and development aspect of the tour a topic for another day but when the Lions returned from their last NZ tour 12 years ago, the key learning points were body position at the breakdown and basic passing/catching skills.
12 years on and despite all the money poured into coaching, we are still burdened with those main skill deficits!
Is it culture? Is it the style of play encouraged by the Aviva? Is it key personnel? What I'm saying is that we don't appear to have learned the appropriate lessons.
Well about half the squad don't even play in the Aviva, so strange excuse.
and England had an 18 match unbeaten run including whitewashing the Aussies in Australia. I think England are progressing after a period of stagnation with Lancaster in charge.
jgriffin
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by jgriffin »

Skills are there. Reffing is part of the issue as we are closer to the laws than SH (though they keep moving the goalposts and also the offside line in ABs matches). Coaching is the issue.
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Hot_Charlie
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by Hot_Charlie »

Well, the Twitter journos are causing a bit of a storm tonight. Latest rumour seems to be Garland is going to call up some midweek players (which was news last night) but these may primarily be drawn from the nations touring downunder, so Scotland and, you guessed it, Wales.

What a surprise. Gatland is singlehandedly destroying the Lions' ethos if true.
drc_007
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by drc_007 »

Warren Gatland will finalise the additions over the weekend but Sportsmail understands Russell, Gareth Davies, Kristian Dacey, Allan Dell, Tomas Francis and Cory Hill are on the preliminary shortlist.

From Daily Mail which is usually accurate for rugby matters. Perhaps those supporters in NZ should send their contact details. Seems that is enough to get a Lions spot.
Starburst
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by Starburst »

If you have two players evenly matched and ones close but the other is a long haul flight away in a different time zone then yes go for the one that's close. Francis and Davies I could understand but Cory Hill and Kristian Dacy !!!! Would they even be close to the Wales squad if it wasn't for players missing due to the Lions and injuries
speedski
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by speedski »

For me Gatland has ruined the Lions tour of NZ in 17. Its not about distance. Its about the shirt.

I had to google most of the wales call ups this morning to get the history. Thats not a Lions player, thats a choice of biased convenience. Not least when the test nz side is throwing 78 to nill against Samoa.

I am no longer disappointed that ill be in the air for the next two Saturday games due to long haul travel.
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Re: Watching the Lions

Post by HantsTiger »

speedski wrote:For me Gatland has ruined the Lions tour of NZ in 17. Its not about distance. Its about the shirt.

I had to google most of the wales call ups this morning to get the history. Thats not a Lions player, thats a choice of biased convenience. Not least when the test nz side is throwing 78 to nill against Samoa.

I am no longer disappointed that ill be in the air for the next two Saturday games due to long haul travel.
You and me both, when someone like Robshaw looks back and sees he's not been a Lion and yet 'googles finest' (I had to do the same) will be I can understand he'd be a little bitter. There are players from Scotland and Ireland that can feel the same. Ringrose + Russell spring to mind, although they should make the next tour if there is one.

Back to today, if North is the starting Test winger then I give up.....
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