CEO and Board ... you haven't been forgotten

[ourla]

Look it up. (said in the old BJ spirit).

I was thinking in context of this "deal". Who was it mean and unfair to and in what way?

[dunks43]

""In the curious swap arrangement with Bath for Ford imposed on Burns, our CEO & Board have once again demonstrated their ineptitude. I wouldn't ask them to make the arrangements for the proverbial in a brewery.""

The clubs and Freddies take is .. they signed george ford .. Freddie said.. Oh you dont think im good enough im off........... I lot like a child spitting his dummy out , Although i like freddie and think he is a good player , if he didnt want to fight with englands number one for a starting place or learn from a better player , then let him leave ,

[Noddy555]

Yes in my mind it's time for Cohen to resign and seek pastures new. Not that I blame him entirely for the behind the scenes fiasco of this season, it's a collective failure, however someone has to carry the can and as he's the figurehead then ultimate responsibility lies with him. There are also some senior managers in operations who need also to depart.If not the same stale detritus will
happen again next season. Why do I make this demand you ask? Well I could give you chapter & Verse, but I'll confine myself to three reasons.

1. The unmitigated disaster of transfer policy, indeed if one even exists.

2. The Abject way we deal with contract negotiations for our so called stars. who seem to hold them over a barrel just in case they quit the club and move elsewhere. Tuilagi and Toomua are just two of many examples.

3. The way the senior management treat fans some of whom have had many more years managerial experience than they have.

The Only good department in my mind is the marketing department and whoever is running this not only needs a pat on the back but also a substantial increase in salary and movement onto the board.

[johnthegriff]

Noddy are you suggesting that if a player (Toomua/Tuilagi) gets injured we shoud finish his contract, and do you seriously expect any worthwhile player to join us if that is the case.
Transfer policy? There is not really a much of a transfer fee situation in rugby, unlike soccer. there has been occasions when fees have been involved when a player moves mid contract but in the main players contracts are negotiated every two years although young men who may increase in value over 12 months (like Genge) will often only accept a one year contract and older ones may only be offered a one year deal as their value to the team diminishes. The status of players we sign is limited by the financial ability of the club and of course the salary cap to pay the high wages that certain other billionaire backed businesses seem able to manage.
How have you been treated by senior management? I have normally found them to be ok to deal with, particularly those in situ at the moment

[trendylfj]

The clubs and Freddies take is .. they signed george ford .. Freddie said.. Oh you dont think im good enough im off........... I lot like a child spitting his dummy out , Although i like freddie and think he is a good player , if he didnt want to fight with englands number one for a starting place or learn from a better player , then let him leave ,

Where did you get that this was Freddie's attitude? I just don't accept this reading of the situation though I am not in any position of knowing the truth anymore than you. Do you know if he was told that he COULD stay and fight for his place? He fought for his place with Owen and knew that it would be a real contest and came out a better player for it. The impression which I got is that SC made it plain that he wasn't wanted - again - the only evidence I have is what Freddie said after the Sale game - he blamed SC for having to go and certainly gave the impression that he wanted to stay but couldn't as he was the makeweight Bath wanted to enable the club to get GF.

[ourla]

The clubs and Freddies take is .. they signed george ford .. Freddie said.. Oh you dont think im good enough im off........... I lot like a child spitting his dummy out , Although i like freddie and think he is a good player , if he didnt want to fight with englands number one for a starting place or learn from a better player , then let him leave ,

Where did you get that this was Freddie's attitude? I just don't accept this reading of the situation though I am not in any position of knowing the truth anymore than you. Do you know if he was told that he COULD stay and fight for his place? He fought for his place with Owen and knew that it would be a real contest and came out a better player for it. The impression which I got is that SC made it plain that he wasn't wanted - again - the only evidence I have is what Freddie said after the Sale game - he blamed SC for having to go and certainly gave the impression that he wanted to stay but couldn't as he was the makeweight Bath wanted to enable the club to get GF.

Unless someone was there when the conversations took place we'll never know. Even then it might be a matter of opinion as to who was in the wrong. Contrary to what Noddy's great Marketing department might say family members sometimes have quarrels and fall out (Dean Richards for example).

[mol2]

The Burns:Ford mess demonstrates the problem with the decision making.

We blow our cash on a new fly half who is perhaps marginally better when our back row is the big weakness. (I am ignoring the centre problem which is more to do with injuries).

It could be likened to an F1 team with an underpowered engine buying a new gearbox and saying all is well!

I won't get started on the coaching appointments......

[Noddy555]

Not in the least John the Griff what I'm saying that pay must be based on performance rather than offering them a huge basic salary. I would say in Tuilagi's case that a basic salary of around £100,000 and bonuses for appearances
and performance would have been nearer the mark. If anyone these days can't eke a good living from that level of salary then they must be mentally deranged, If Manu doesn't think that that's enough then bye bye Manu. Similarly for other star players. Firms that let their staff hold them to ransom soon go bust.

[h's dad]

Not in the least John the Griff what I'm saying that pay must be based on performance rather than offering them a huge basic salary. I would say in Tuilagi's case that a basic salary of around £100,000 and bonuses for appearances
and performance would have been nearer the mark. If anyone these days can't eke a good living from that level of salary then they must be mentally deranged, If Manu doesn't think that that's enough then bye bye Manu. Similarly for other star players. Firms that let their staff hold them to ransom soon go bust.

Doe anybody definitively know of any player who is paid to play at any level who isn't on such a performance based scheme? Noddy, the wheel has already been invented.

[Noddy555]

Yes H's Dad but our board seemed to have climbed off their bike a long time ago.

[johnthegriff]

Noddy many people on this board suggest various players we should sign, why would they come here when they can earn more elsewhere and with your suggestion vastly less. Star players have a market value and if we want to sign them or retain players we have we have to be financially competitive whilst managing the books. Firms that have inferior cheaper staff than their competitors go bust very quickly because their customers desert them.

[Roly]

Noddy many people on this board suggest various players we should sign, why would they come here when they can earn more elsewhere and with your suggestion vastly less. Star players have a market value and if we want to sign them or retain players we have we have to be financially competitive whilst managing the books. Firms that have inferior cheaper staff than their competitors go bust very quickly because their customers desert them.

Like Apple, or Nike you mean?

[mol2]

I doubt many top players are going to sign on a "pay by game" basis.

The odd one with a long term injury who could not get a contract any other way perhaps, trying to prove his fitness aside.

As jobs go few are like rugby where significant injuries are part of the game rather than in normal life where you don't expect to get injured doing our job.
A players market value may well fall if they have a track record of lots of injuries.

I won't go for that tackle on a big bloke at full tilt - if I get injured I won't get paid next week!

[Noddy555]

Mol 2 I'm not suggesting a system of pay for game by game. What I'm saying is that
paying players an inflated so called market rate for mediocre or non performances is a sure way to rack and ruin, As John the Griff states if you don't pay top whack for stars they will ply their trade elsewhere. So good luck to them, The way things are going, there may be a time in the not too distant future when Season Tickets to watch Aviva Premiership games will be approaching the same prices as
Premiership football, Are you prepared to shell out £10,000 per annum to watch the Tigers. I admire the way the board has marketed season tickets for next year at this seasons rate but this can't be continued indefinitely and those of us on pensions who can't take advantage of this offer are shuddering to think to what levels prices will be hiked afterwards.

[johnthegriff]

Quite a big jump from the £300 ish I pay for my pensioners seat in the Crumbie (I can't afford The Try Line Club) to £10,000.00
The facts are if we do not spend the market rate for players we will be relegated. The probability then is that we will not be able to afford the contracts we have agreed as we will no longer receive the money we get from television and Premiership rugby.
Players have a relatively short time at high wages to secure the financial future for themselves and their families. The nature of the game is that each match could be the end of their career that is why the players employ agents to ensure they maximise return for their skills and efforts.