I knew what you were referring to, as I posted something similar earlier on. But that was not what the others were referring to.oxontiger wrote:No. What i meant was, in 2002/3, Glos were champs by a country mile. 15 points clear. Wasps had to play off one extra game against Saints, which they won before going in to the final. Glos had no meaningful game for three weeks, hence, going off the boil.
In 2003/4, Bath were deserved champs. 6 points clear. Wasps had to play off one extra game against Saints, which they won before going in to the final. Bath had no meaningful game for three weeks, hence, going off the boil.
That is why i don't think having that extra week off is beneficial. It has failed 2/2 so far.
OT
Better Play Off System?
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Re: Better Play Off System?
Re: Better Play Off System?
And yet, people seem perfectly happy to endorse The Lions, as if this was somehow different....Big Dai wrote:
The players can do without the extra opportunity to get injured. I can also do without giving winning opportunity to unworthy teams.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.
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Re: Better Play Off System?
A Lions' tour is the exception as it only occurs every four years and is the pinnacle of achievement for every player and in my opinion should remain on the calendar.Roly wrote:And yet, people seem perfectly happy to endorse The Lions, as if this was somehow different....Big Dai wrote:
The players can do without the extra opportunity to get injured. I can also do without giving winning opportunity to unworthy teams.
The debate regarding the justification of the end of season play-offs will never reach an end and there are good arguments for and against. On the plus side, we've just had two fabulous games to savour andfor me, quite justly, the first two sides at the end of the regular season will meet in the final.
On the minus side are the injuries - Billy Vunipola will not tour with the Lions this year (he'll surely be on the next one).
Dai, if Saracens had been champions, would you deem them to be unworthy?
Semper in excretia
Re: Better Play Off System?
That is the perception.Robespierre wrote:A Lions' tour is the exception as it only occurs every four years and is the pinnacle of achievement for every player and in my opinion should remain on the calendar.Roly wrote:And yet, people seem perfectly happy to endorse The Lions, as if this was somehow different....Big Dai wrote:
The players can do without the extra opportunity to get injured. I can also do without giving winning opportunity to unworthy teams.
Arguably, it's winning a World Cup.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.
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Re: Better Play Off System?
It used to be that we had people on here who would use every topic to have a go at Cockers. I thought that that type of thing had ended, but Roly, you are using every available opportunity to indulge your pathological dislike of the Lions. I've no problem with your views, but, as before, the repetion gets tiresome and detracts from your arguments.Roly wrote:And yet, people seem perfectly happy to endorse The Lions, as if this was somehow different....Big Dai wrote:
The players can do without the extra opportunity to get injured. I can also do without giving winning opportunity to unworthy teams.
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Re: Better Play Off System?
Here's the opening two paragraphs from Brian Moore's column in today's Telegraph:
"I don’t agree with play-offs; if you finish top, after the long, attritional season, you deserve the trophy. At the very least you deserve some recognition of that feat, as they have in Rugby League. It is all about money, of course, whatever is said about compensating for internationals.
That said, on the positive side, the two semi-finals produced rugby at its most exciting for the interested and disinterested alike. Impetus swings, brutal commitment and tense, thrilling finishes saw Exeter and Wasps go through to the final."
And yes, winning a World Cup is up there too, but considering that most players in GB/ireland have little hope of doing that - except of course, us arrogant English , selection for the Lions is more achievable.
"I don’t agree with play-offs; if you finish top, after the long, attritional season, you deserve the trophy. At the very least you deserve some recognition of that feat, as they have in Rugby League. It is all about money, of course, whatever is said about compensating for internationals.
That said, on the positive side, the two semi-finals produced rugby at its most exciting for the interested and disinterested alike. Impetus swings, brutal commitment and tense, thrilling finishes saw Exeter and Wasps go through to the final."
And yes, winning a World Cup is up there too, but considering that most players in GB/ireland have little hope of doing that - except of course, us arrogant English , selection for the Lions is more achievable.
Semper in excretia
Re: Better Play Off System?
Third isn't first. I think the only justifiable play off is the one we now have. A game to separate the two teams on 84 points. 77 is more than one BP win away so I'd say Sarries would have been unworthy champions. IMHO and with all the caveats a grumpy old man can muster.Robespierre wrote:A Lions' tour is the exception as it only occurs every four years and is the pinnacle of achievement for every player and in my opinion should remain on the calendar.Roly wrote:And yet, people seem perfectly happy to endorse The Lions, as if this was somehow different....Big Dai wrote:
The players can do without the extra opportunity to get injured. I can also do without giving winning opportunity to unworthy teams.
The debate regarding the justification of the end of season play-offs will never reach an end and there are good arguments for and against. On the plus side, we've just had two fabulous games to savour andfor me, quite justly, the first two sides at the end of the regular season will meet in the final.
On the minus side are the injuries - Billy Vunipola will not tour with the Lions this year (he'll surely be on the next one).
Dai, if Saracens had been champions, would you deem them to be unworthy?
I'm becoming very disillusioned with the game. For reasons I quoted earlier in the piece. All too commercial now. Yes yes I know I can't fight progress. But I can ignore it. For my own peace of mind .
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Re: Better Play Off System?
I too, having grown up and played before professional league rugby came to be, am in the "first past the post" system - as in the FA Premier League. For once, rugby can follow the lead from football. I don't believe that football in any European country has play-offs. So why in rugby?Big Dai wrote: Third isn't first. I think the only justifiable play off is the one we now have. A game to separate the two teams on 84 points. 77 is more than one BP win away so I'd say Sarries would have been unworthy champions. IMHO and with all the caveats a grumpy old man can muster.
I'm becoming very disillusioned with the game. For reasons I quoted earlier in the piece. All too commercial now. Yes yes I know I can't fight progress. But I can ignore it. For my own peace of mind .
Play-offs generate money, and that sadly, is what counts today.
Semper in excretia
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Re: Better Play Off System?
Quite simply in football a successful team with England international players is not forced to play a number of games without its best players. Also players are not removed from the football team mid preparation for important fixtures foe England squad training sessions only being released when there is just one days club training to go before the game.
Saracens with Maco Vunipola, George, Itoje, Kruise, Billy Vunipola, Farrel, Goode and possibly others were inconvenienced more than any other club just as Tigers were in the past. The play offs help to re-address the unfairness of the system, although I do think there should be a trophy for the team finishing top of the Premiership just as there was in 2001 when we won the treble.
Saracens with Maco Vunipola, George, Itoje, Kruise, Billy Vunipola, Farrel, Goode and possibly others were inconvenienced more than any other club just as Tigers were in the past. The play offs help to re-address the unfairness of the system, although I do think there should be a trophy for the team finishing top of the Premiership just as there was in 2001 when we won the treble.
Re: Better Play Off System?
Football has FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League, Europa League all of which are derivations of the play off system.
All American sports work to a play off system.
Rugby League has a play off system.
Basketball has a play off system.
And so on.
It the most interesting and exciting way to end the season. I think having a trophy for winning the league would detract fron the play offs and I'm sorry but the argument about the internationals still has some merit.
All American sports work to a play off system.
Rugby League has a play off system.
Basketball has a play off system.
And so on.
It the most interesting and exciting way to end the season. I think having a trophy for winning the league would detract fron the play offs and I'm sorry but the argument about the internationals still has some merit.
Re: Better Play Off System?
Then all that is left for me to do is choose where I spend my time and my money.ourla wrote:Football has FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League, Europa League all of which are derivations of the play off system.
All American sports work to a play off system.
Rugby League has a play off system.
Basketball has a play off system.
And so on.
It the most interesting and exciting way to end the season. I think having a trophy for winning the league would detract fron the play offs and I'm sorry but the argument about the internationals still has some merit.
Exile Wigstonite living in Wales.
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
Poet laureate of the "One Eyed Turk".
Bar stool philosopher in the "Wilted Daffodil"
Re: Better Play Off System?
Don't worry about it.Big Dai wrote:Then all that is left for me to do is choose where I spend my time and my money.ourla wrote:Football has FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League, Europa League all of which are derivations of the play off system.
All American sports work to a play off system.
Rugby League has a play off system.
Basketball has a play off system.
And so on.
It the most interesting and exciting way to end the season. I think having a trophy for winning the league would detract fron the play offs and I'm sorry but the argument about the internationals still has some merit.
I seem to be the only one who would see the Lions go in the skip, but it doesn't matter how many times you say, "It's :censored:", nobody will dare concede that you might actually have a point..
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.
Re: Better Play Off System?
Of course. As always.Big Dai wrote:Then all that is left for me to do is choose where I spend my time and my money.ourla wrote:Football has FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League, Europa League all of which are derivations of the play off system.
All American sports work to a play off system.
Rugby League has a play off system.
Basketball has a play off system.
And so on.
It the most interesting and exciting way to end the season. I think having a trophy for winning the league would detract fron the play offs and I'm sorry but the argument about the internationals still has some merit.
Re: Better Play Off System?
Roly, I don't think that is true. You have "a point" but it was debated. Bringing it up in lots of other threads does not make your point more valid. You are bored with the Burns love in, some are bored by your Lions sniping.Roly wrote:Don't worry about it.Big Dai wrote:Then all that is left for me to do is choose where I spend my time and my money.ourla wrote:Football has FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League, Europa League all of which are derivations of the play off system.
All American sports work to a play off system.
Rugby League has a play off system.
Basketball has a play off system.
And so on.
It the most interesting and exciting way to end the season. I think having a trophy for winning the league would detract fron the play offs and I'm sorry but the argument about the internationals still has some merit.
I seem to be the only one who would see the Lions go in the skip, but it doesn't matter how many times you say, "It's ", nobody will dare concede that you might actually have a point..