Saints in the Soup

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Soggypitch
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Saints in the Soup

Post by Soggypitch » Mon May 01, 2017 10:07 am

Surely a minimum requirement for a club like Saints is top 6 and top flight European rugby.
But they languish 3 points behind Quins, who have won two more games than Saints.
Who are they playing on Saturday? Quins at home!! A straight shoot out for 6th place, but Saints have to deny Quins a losing bonus point or score 4 trys and win, it will not be easy and my money is on Quins.
If Saints do finish 7th what future for Mallinder and West? With the squad of players they have, there is really not much excuse for such a poor season.
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Maidman
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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by Maidman » Mon May 01, 2017 10:43 am

I agree. I think Saints have become a bit like Glaws in their level of underachievement when you look at their results compared to their squad. A definite case of the parts being better than the whole.

I think both Glaws and Saints have a chance of Champions Cup next year if they finish 7th, but they'll need to go through some play offs.

I have a view that all management teams need a bit of a refresh after a while, and I wonder if Mallinder and or West need to go somewhere new, they have been at Saints just too long. I have heard from some of my Saints mates that West is not popular amongst some of the senior players, so his cards may already be marked!

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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by Soggypitch » Mon May 01, 2017 10:56 am

Maidman wrote:I agree. I think Saints have become a bit like Glaws in their level of underachievement when you look at their results compared to their squad. A definite case of the parts being better than the whole.

I think both Glaws and Saints have a chance of Champions Cup next year if they finish 7th, but they'll need to go through some play offs.

I have a view that all management teams need a bit of a refresh after a while, and I wonder if Mallinder and or West need to go somewhere new, they have been at Saints just too long. I have heard from some of my Saints mates that West is not popular amongst some of the senior players, so his cards may already be marked!
I didn't realise that you could finish 7th and still qualify via a play off, how does that work exactly?
As for Glaws they are worse than Saints, perennial under achievers and they will get stuffed at home v Exeter next week.
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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by Cagey Tiger » Mon May 01, 2017 11:17 am

Soggypitch wrote:
Maidman wrote:I agree. I think Saints have become a bit like Glaws in their level of underachievement when you look at their results compared to their squad. A definite case of the parts being better than the whole.

I think both Glaws and Saints have a chance of Champions Cup next year if they finish 7th, but they'll need to go through some play offs.

I have a view that all management teams need a bit of a refresh after a while, and I wonder if Mallinder and or West need to go somewhere new, they have been at Saints just too long. I have heard from some of my Saints mates that West is not popular amongst some of the senior players, so his cards may already be marked!
I didn't realise that you could finish 7th and still qualify via a play off, how does that work exactly?
As for Glaws they are worse than Saints, perennial under achievers and they will get stuffed at home v Exeter next week.
If you thought positions in the AP could get complicated...

In accordance with the Heads of Agreement drawn up by the nine unions, federations and league bodies, the 20th place in the Champions Cup will be decided by a series of play-off matches.

The play-offs will include the following clubs:

The seventh-ranked club from the TOP 14, or the winner of the Challenge Cup if from the TOP 14 and not already qualified for the Champions Cup.

The seventh-ranked club from the Aviva Premiership, or the winner of the Challenge Cup if from the Aviva Premiership and not already qualified for the Champions Cup.

The eighth and ninth-ranked clubs from the Guinness PRO12, or the winner of the Challenge Cup if from the Guinness PRO12 and not already qualified for the Champions Cup. This club will take the place in the play-offs of the ninth-ranked club.

19/20/21 May 2017

Play-off 1: Aviva Premiership (seventh-ranked club) v Guinness PRO12 (ninth-ranked club)

Play-off 2: TOP 14 (seventh-ranked club) v Guinness PRO12 (eighth-ranked club)

The Premiership and TOP 14 clubs will have home advantage

26/27/28 May 2017

Play-off Final: winner Play-off 1 v winner Play-off 2

The winner of Play-off 1 will have home advantage

The winner of the Play-off Final will take the 20th place in the 2017/18 Champions Cup

Soggypitch
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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by Soggypitch » Mon May 01, 2017 11:25 am

Blimey - thanks Cagey you learn something every day :smt002

Looks like saints will have a long season then, let's hope it is worth it! :smt009
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jgriffin
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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by jgriffin » Mon May 01, 2017 11:41 am

My Saints-in-laws think the only bulwark between the team and Purgatory (fighting in the AP 9-12 slot)has been Picamoles.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.

BengalTiger
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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by BengalTiger » Mon May 01, 2017 8:13 pm

West "not popular with senior players" Shock horror! Not popular with anyone, is the more accurate observation.
Nobby always looks like someone has pooped in his porridge!

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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by Stu_F » Mon May 01, 2017 9:32 pm

Of course if Gloucester win the Challenge Cup they get the play off spot and the "loser" of Quins v Saints doesn't even if they get 7th.

fentiger
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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by fentiger » Mon May 01, 2017 10:56 pm

BengalTiger wrote:West "not popular with senior players" Shock horror! Not popular with anyone, is the more accurate observation.
Nobby always looks like someone has pooped in his porridge!
.... and no one told him until after he'd eaten it! :smt044

Noddy555
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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by Noddy555 » Tue May 02, 2017 8:03 pm

But the real question for Saints is what do they do if they finish 8th as both Quins and Gloucester could finish above them? Then what price Mr Mallendar's job?

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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by BIttySmalls » Wed May 03, 2017 8:30 am

A smart club would be approaching Picamoles' agent and suggesting that the Ayerza cap space is available if he would actually like to challenge for trophy.

He wouldn't even need to move house.

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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by Bunchy » Wed May 03, 2017 11:24 am

Ayerza cap money spent on existing front row strengthening

My Stains friends are telling me the fans are so unhappy that no changes are being muted even. The talk of West and senior players not getting on gets ever louder, and the relaxed attitude to defeats also not going down well.
Less is more....

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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by Iain » Wed May 03, 2017 11:59 am

I suspect that Mallinder is toast. Speculation was being made that Mauger may have been heading there. Okay, he went to the Highlanders in the end but the fact that there was speculation.... well there tends to be no smoke without fire on these things.

chris111
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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by chris111 » Wed May 03, 2017 1:27 pm

Bunchy wrote:Ayerza cap money spent on existing front row strengthening

My Stains friends are telling me the fans are so unhappy that no changes are being muted even. The talk of West and senior players not getting on gets ever louder, and the relaxed attitude to defeats also not going down well.
I may be in a minority here, as I know it's supposed to be in the Tiger DNA to revel in any misfortune that befalls Saints - but I actually want to see a return to the days when Tigers v Saints was the big game of the year. Two 'old school' clubs at the top of the tree, the East Midlands as the centre of the English rugby universe - and no sign of cash-rich franchises roaming the land and hoovering up the talent and the headlines!

I don't believe that sacking coaches is automatically an effective response to a bad period, but it does seem that Saints been stagnating for several years now. Their approach to the game feels very dated, yet the Mallinder/West response has seemed to be to persist with "more of the same".

At least Tigers have tried to evolve (I'll leave it to other threads to thrash out whether or not it has been (or will be) a success!), and this demonstrates the sort of ambition that will attract new players and keep current ones interested in staying. For Saints, however, I can't imagine many players looking for new clubs seeing them as a first choice whilst the coaching set up and playing style remains as it is. I also wonder how many of their current squad might be thinking there would be more exciting options elsewhere...

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Re: Saints in the Soup

Post by tigercaspian » Wed May 03, 2017 2:42 pm

chris111 wrote:
Bunchy wrote:Ayerza cap money spent on existing front row strengthening

My Stains friends are telling me the fans are so unhappy that no changes are being muted even. The talk of West and senior players not getting on gets ever louder, and the relaxed attitude to defeats also not going down well.
I may be in a minority here, as I know it's supposed to be in the Tiger DNA to revel in any misfortune that befalls Saints - but I actually want to see a return to the days when Tigers v Saints was the big game of the year. Two 'old school' clubs at the top of the tree, the East Midlands as the centre of the English rugby universe - and no sign of cash-rich franchises roaming the land and hoovering up the talent and the headlines!

I don't believe that sacking coaches is automatically an effective response to a bad period, but it does seem that Saints been stagnating for several years now. Their approach to the game feels very dated, yet the Mallinder/West response has seemed to be to persist with "more of the same".

At least Tigers have tried to evolve (I'll leave it to other threads to thrash out whether or not it has been (or will be) a success!), and this demonstrates the sort of ambition that will attract new players and keep current ones interested in staying. For Saints, however, I can't imagine many players looking for new clubs seeing them as a first choice whilst the coaching set up and playing style remains as it is. I also wonder how many of their current squad might be thinking there would be more exciting options elsewhere...
It's a question of balance, isn't it ? At Tigers we have done something about it and await the outcome: too soon for some, too late for others.

At Bath, Ford was dumped like a hot potato after a successful season + having the Burgess fiasco to deal with. I really think he should have been given another Burgess-free season.

At Saints, you might be able to make the case that they have hung on too long and that the lack of change has led to a staleness ? I wouldn't say the signings of Matfield and Picamoles indicate a lack of ambition though.

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