Fans Forum

[L Smith]

I couldn't make it to tonight's forum. Did anyone go and was there anything interesting to report?
On another thread, there's a suggestion that it was confirmed that Kalamafoni has definitely signed.

[strawclearer]

DoR - Cohen saying his lips are sealed; no names given but should know more by the end of March.

[ellis9]

I wasn't there but apparently (from someone that was):
-Deal agreed between Bath and Tigers for Ford but no contract agreed yet. Both parties want it to happen.
-Kalamafoni is a done deal
-Tigers hope the recruitment experts will have come back with options by mid February and hope to have the new DOR in place in March to give him time to settle in.
-The DOR will be allowed to employ his own coaches
-Toomua may yet play this season
-Pietersen and Veianu back from injury soon

[Noddy555]

My sources say that Veianu has progressed so well that he may be in the line-up against Gloucester this Saturday.

[ellis9]

Not according to what was said tonight he won't. He will be back soon but not this week.

[wormus]

My sources say that Veianu has progressed so well that he may be in the line-up against Gloucester this Saturday.

Your sources are wrong Noddy, my reliable source says probably available v Bristol on the 18th. By the way it's Veainu as Eric Morecambe said "right notes not necessarily in the right order!" Although the Daily Mail now says open sauces should be kept in the fridge!

[KevinR]

You're right about the spelling, which always led me to believe that we should actually be saying 'Vy-ee-noo' - until I found THIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgJLAyB3H6c

[tigercaspian]

Go to the Unoffy for a great report by SK88

[Iain]

Go to the Unoffy for a great report by SK88

Quoted below for anyone who hasn't seen it. Fascinating reading. I've not always been a fan of Cohen but I must say his openness and honesty in the last few months has been refreshing.

Forum was with Ed Hollis, head of medical services, Ged Glynn, head of rugby operations and Simon Cohen, chief operating office.

Night was split into three main parts, first two questions were asked by Gary Sherrard, third was from the floor "MC'd" by Chris Rose.

First question was to EH on our injury rate. All clubs use same system that reports back to RFU and where the annual injury survey is generated from. EH said we have just received our half yearly up date on the figures. This year we have had 65 match injuries per 1,000 hours played, the premiership average is 100 and 1.5 training injuries/1,000 hours with a Prem average of 2.5/1,000.

Toomua is on track to be back before the end of the season "for the finals". Said some other things too this just what I wrote down.

Second question was to Ged Glynn about how we recruit. The "main 4" of Cockerill, Glynn, Cohen and Mauger meet weekly to discuss the squad. Re-signings, academy promotions, long term needs, immediate needs etc. Now obviously only 3 men in the meetings. Director of rugby has final say on players and recruitment. Full stop.

Showed us his database of players we are actively scouting at the moment. Had a file for every position, by number, eg 1-15. Keep old databases etc. Looked at Maxime Mermoz, they have a video database of every game he has played this season and have the videos clipped into Key Performance Indicators i.e. passes, runs, tackles. KPIs vary by position. They review this and compare players to determine who they want etc.

Then scout "character" through contacts in the game, are they family based, drinker, gambler, etc. Again with Mermoz; Glynn knows Tom Whitford, Toulon team manager, from coaching him at Cambridge Uni a long time ago. Mermoz sound guy etc etc. Normally then Matt Cornwall comes into to sell Leicester and the off field aspects. Schools if applicable, social life, where they want to live.

Mermoz was signed within two days of Manu going down. Delay was Toulon dragging their feet just incase they needed him before 6N (in the end they did).

SC was asked if he felt lack of Director of Rugby will harm recruitment. He gave a long answer that I surmised as "no he doesn't".

Then SC gave background of the board. 11 people, 3 employees 8 non-executive. Two main sub committees Rugby and Finance. He sits on both. Also a "remuneration" sub committee was mentioned briefly.

Rugby sub committee is Ben Kay, Rory Underwood, Ged Glynn, Simon Cohen and Peter Tom.

SC says Cockerill was totally in charge of who he had as assistant coaches. "No issues" in 2013. O'Connor leaves slightly late in the day; several alternative on the table Cockerill chose to promote Burke. Starts okay, 2014 ends 1 point off home semi final then lose away semi in 78th minute. Disappointed but can see its close.

Next season starts v.poorly. Cockerill decided to "terminate the contract" of Burke, wanted Mauger and we got him. Thought he would be a good foil, knew there would be playing differences but wanted that. Last season unusual in that we started very well then declined in January onwards. Alarm bells started ringing, very concerned with performance in CC SF against Racing. Then Sarries SF too. Message was confused by "nuanced" differences, gap was perhaps 10%. All thought it could be closed but clearly wasn't being.

Glynn and Cohen started tapping up international coaches in the Autumn Internationals as potential replacements. "Tapping up" is my words and interpretations not theirs.

Coaches themselves decided that gap could not be bridged and someone had to leave the group. "Senior player group" visited Peter Tom at Marriot hotel when he was in country and gave their feedback. SC insists it was all as amicable as it could have been.

End of part 1.

Part 2:

Ed Hollis spoke about the group's continuous professional development, sending people to conferences, having specialists come here to help us and learn themselves etc. Interesting but I've heard similar before from last two people to do the job. Explained new process of pitchside concussion reviewer and that he doesn't really get to "watch the match" as he is so involved in watching the injuries.

90% of the squad are carrying some sort of injury, views his role as one of a "risk manager". Baring broken legs, ligaments etc, Can get any player fit for any game but then risk of them breaking down or missing other matches increases.

Ged Glynn then gave a presentation on the academy. Admitted previous mistakes, name checked Perry Humphreys, Alex Lewington and Henry Purdy as people he made mistakes with. Several years (before all those 3) ago he gave a smaller group a presentation where he said the only player he regretted leaving was Charlie Walker so a very different tone from him.

Academy broken down into:

850 U13 to U16s "DPP" developing players pathway from 9 regional centres.
80 "Out reach" U17-18 80 players with three main strands; "Good to great" all at independent schools, take best 5ish players in each year group to "drive standards"; AASE at QE, this is apprenticeship scheme, then other schools that they try to monitor through community side etc.
40 Main academy U17-U18s. Based in Leicester.
15 or so 18+s in development squad.

Showed a fancy diagram about how integrated system now is, previously there was "academy silo" and "First XV silo" and there was little interaction between them. Now have coaches link more between steps from DPP->Academy->Development->1st XV.

As above recognises previous failures, now try to keep players in system longer not make 1st XV or nothing call at 19.

Major problem is meaningful game time, pathetic 5 A league games, got to get the loan agreement right. A fan of Melville's buddy system (didn't say it like that but described Mellville's proposed system). Wants more control of youngsters game time, unhappy with current system. Each player has a player mentor.

Discussion lead by SC about the salary cap and central revenues. Currently 113% of central PRL funds, will fall to 97% as cap stays same but funds rise. GG blames Bruce Craig for forcing through second marquee player and inflating wage demands. Said young players today not like Ben Youngs or Tom Croft and willing to sacrifice a bit of salary for a better squad. I couldn't really pick who he meant by that to be honest.

Then we went to the open questions.

Man asked why we don't do 4 or 5 year contracts to tie down payers like Jamie Gibson. They don't like the risk associated with 4 or 5 year deals and don't think the players want them either. GG Thinks we made the right call on Gibson as he didn't fit into our group of players and we wanted bigger carrier (Mike Williams) and specialist 7 (O'Connor).

Same man made comment on Salary Cap. SC gave totally, purely, 100% hypothetical example of Club B using a "wrinkle" in salary cap on agents fees. Gave example that we used to use on traveling expenses. Did not see a problem with it, pushing the interpretations, part of the game etc. Club B's chairman resolute that details could not be even hinted at in public. SC thinks secrecy did more damage than releasing details would have done.

New man (pretty sure he posts here) asked question on replacements for Williams and Cockerill. SC clarified if he means Ford. Obviously we all say "YES!!". Says Ford wants to come here and we want him to come. Dealing with Bath to begin negotiations. Nothing signed with Ford yet, negotiations with him not started yet. If Williams is replaced by Ford he would be "comfortable". Discussed Burns situation. Not strictly linked to GF but Bath will need a 10, if Burns wants out it would be an option. At the moment ideal situation is to have FB and GF fight it out. Those were his words. His tone suggested otherwise, to me at least.

Recruiters reporting to rugby sun committee in 3rd week of Feb. Arrange interviews etc. New man will have authority to bring in whoever he wants. Sorted by end of March if all goes to plan.

Man asked about Harry Thacker, Odogwu and academy generally. Thacker wants to play, money is no issue but wants to be clear where he is in pecking order before signing. Glynn spoke very very highly of him. Odogwu: Glynn backed his decision. Said he was part of decision and agreed with it. Said Odogwu is very good at some parts of game but not others. Referred to earlier discussion on Academy.

I asked about revenues and whether Cohen was satisfied with the flat revenue growth of the last 5 yeas. He said we had faced much stiffer competition from LCFC and Wasps in last couple of years. Net revenue is better as cutting costs of doing business, example of loans on stands coming to an end so same revenue but c.£1m extra cash to go into playing side. Example on international hospitality Matt Poole now runs his own company, we are investors in it (or something like that I was listening to him answer me rather than writing notes at this point).

Man behind me asked about Rugby League players in the above databases of players. SC and GG both said offered them regularly, usually too much a of risk for us. E.g. Burgess, offered him, couldn't see him as a 12, thought a good backrower but too expensive for us in that position given the risks. Note: from the court case we know Denny Solomona only earned £80k at Castleford last year so I really think there are going to be some cheapo converts to take a risk on but whevs.

Woman in front of me asked about PR on Cockerill sacking. Gary answered. Said the club announcing any more at the time would have looked like sticking the knife in, Cockerill agreed the final statement put out. As he put it you can't dress up a "sh.t sandwich".

Man behind me asked about recruitment and number 8. Glynn put hands up that Fonua was his call and didn't work out. Cockerill/Mauger "nuances" also effected/confused recruitment. Confirmed a signing that I was going to exclude from the notes but you can read elsewhere.

and that was basically it. I've got the questions at the end in the wrong order. And this has litterally taken me more than half an hour to type!

[JackFlashJonny]

Go to the Unoffy for a great report by SK88

Thanks for this Iain and original poster on Unoffy that was a refreshing read for once...

[Coops]

Yes good feedback, and makes some interesting reading.

[strawclearer]

Yes - - thanks to all involved for this - the openness is very much appreciated!

[ellis9]

So for all the people moaning at the club thinking they are trying to get Burns to move so we can get Ford are wrong. He will only go if he wants to leave.

[wormus]

Go to the Unoffy for a great report by SK88

Fascinating reading. I've not always been a fan of Cohen but I must say his openness and honesty in the last few months has been refreshing.

Well done SK88 and to getting prior approval from Gary first; I agree with Iain that the discussion at the Forum was direct and honest and mine and others there have a greater respect for the management and Simon Cohen than before or how portrayed on this Forum, for those unable to go please do not criticise try to go next time. Thanks must go to the club & club forum in organising the free event and for the detailed explanations given, even if "hypothetical!"

[Noddy555]

When I had my own transport I regularly used to attend every fans forum, and of the 6 or so I attended the only useful and fascinating one was given by Julie ?
who was the manager & a practising physio of the Tigers Health centre.