Youngs brothers

[Chobbsy]

You only need to look at Ben's performances in the Autumn, surrounded by a strong and confident team, to see that he is still a great player. As it stands, this Tigers team do not compliment him.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there, it isn't Ben, we is world class and proves it time and again (England) he doesn't have the players around him at Tigers to allow him to be world class for us, the forwards are winning / securing the ball fast enough to allow him to give fast delivery. Any premier side would snap him up if we even mentioned him being available.

[Clowbeck]

I rate Ben 32 out of 96 doughnuts for performance in last game

[SirGordonRamsey]

You only need to look at Ben's performances in the Autumn, surrounded by a strong and confident team, to see that he is still a great player. As it stands, this Tigers team do not compliment him.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there, it isn't Ben, we is world class and proves it time and again (England) he doesn't have the players around him at Tigers to allow him to be world class for us, the forwards are winning / securing the ball fast enough to allow him to give fast delivery. Any premier side would snap him up if we even mentioned him being available.

You say its to do with the team and I must admit it plays a part in his performance, but how many times recently have we seen him snipe only to find out he's ran into two Locks and is now being chocked tackled.
How many poor box kicks.
Bad decision making.
Tigers are at their lowest now, but Ben Youngs has constantly been called inconsistent for maybe 3 years now.

[Spicer]

To be world class you cannot only be good when other players make it easier. World class players can shine in an poor team, like Sergio Parisse for example. Ben Youngs is good, but not that good and is only as good as the team.

[Noddy555]

Agree Spicer Ben is good even international class but no where near the world's best as for Tom he needs to take a break from Rugby, In the last three matches he's looked tired. Granted he always gives 100% but when its not working you need to step back and evaluate the situation.

[mol2]

To be world class you cannot only be good when other players make it easier. World class players can shine in an poor team, like Sergio Parisse for example. Ben Youngs is good, but not that good and is only as good as the team.

There's a difference in terms of impact that a back row player can make compared to a scrum half.
A back rower with the physicality of Parisse can grab the ball and take it forward. Few if any 9s can do that. Harry Ellis was one of the few who seemed to be able to drive players back but it's not really top of the 9s list of attributes.

The pack aren't generating quick ball and when it comes out there are a row of static players to pass to. Other sides have runners and dummy runners coming on to the ball. This fixes defenders and can also leave gaps around the breakdown for Ben's runs. Harrison probably has the better pass and may be more forceful at getting our forwards to hand over the ball but it's still slow with our back rows not clearing rucks and the ball carriers not breaking the line so again easy for the defenders to realign.

[Qbec]

Noddy555: You are spot on there Tom is in need of something wether that be away from the game or what I do not know, but his head is not clear at preseent which is plain for all to see because he is not feeling to good in the top 2" of his head he is making too many ill timed hits laying offside, arguing with the ref etc, etc.
This says to me he is in need of support be that away from the sport or within the sport I don't know, but I feel for the guy he needs help.
The very least the club could do is take the extra work from him i.e the captain on field.

[Chobbsy]

Noddy555: You are spot on there Tom is in need of something wether that be away from the game or what I do not know, but his head is not clear at preseent which is plain for all to see because he is not feeling to good in the top 2" of his head he is making too many ill timed hits laying offside, arguing with the ref etc, etc.
This says to me he is in need of support be that away from the sport or within the sport I don't know, but I feel for the guy he needs help.
The very least the club could do is take the extra work from him i.e the captain on field.

I think he needs to lose the captaincy, I believe it is affecting his game, he can't deal with playing and trying to captain

[mol2]

The captainsy is a burden too far for someone who doesn't seem suited to the role. He may have returned from injury but asking him to do this role in a side that is struggling when he is clearly no where near to finding any of his old form and it may be the captaincy is hindering his own play.

[fillfinger]

IMO Toms form has been a bit off the levels we have seen in previous seasons but he does put in a shift. Ben is class and I remember the outcry on the message boards when we thought he might be leaving. I like Sam but often the scattergun passing is predictable whereas I think Ben keeps teams guessing. Occasionally he runs into trouble but in the main I prefer that to not having a go. Slow ball is the killer to good play and we have been dishing up too much of it!