Is it now time to thank the board (and Mauger)?

[jgriffin]

I would agree with the first half of Smudge's post, but his longstanding campaign against RC blinds him to the issues I highlighted earlier, surrounding RC and in some cases using his willingness (naivety) in taking the job further when he should've walked. I had several conversations with Zac Feaunati (look him up) in 2013-14 where he predicted the decline we have seen. His main point was that the players up to that point included a lot of very streetwise and tough individuals, but that was being replaced by 'professional' players without the toughness and loyalty, and the Tigerishness was rapidly disappearing. RC was an issue(IMO because he knew his limitations but, as he noted, the ££ weren't always there for the right things) but his presence cut both ways; his insistence until recently of fronting up and dominating is IMO essential, and as Fissler and Newman have intimated yesterday, the softer option was chosen in sacking him.
Since that is history, the board IMO has only one option, a coaching clear-out (and hire someone with Tigers DNA like Gustard) as well as losing a few players, and a quiet consultation with someone with a wide view of rugby as to targets NOW for recruitment before it is too late.

[Tigersunited]

So many contradictions....if RC was DOR and not head coach then he manages the coaches and he appoints the coaches.

[Smudge]

JGriffin wrote

I would agree with the first half of Smudge's post, but his longstanding campaign against RC blinds him to the issues I highlighted earlier, surrounding RC and in some cases using his willingness (naivety) in taking the job further when he should've walked

Well nice to see we agree on something. RC's considerable salary and the prestige
associated with it meant that he was never going to "walk", no matter how bad things were.
Yes I have been against him for years now but at least give me credit for being
consistent. I gives me no pleasure to be proved right so I have not chosen to gloat.
We are at a crossroads which should have been seen coming years ago.
Certainly the loss of the hard nuts you describe were a significant factor
but the chaps I stand with have been telling this to anyone willing to listen
for years now.It should have been tackled.
The club is bigger than anyone and we have now to get it right.
The question on everyone's lips "Is Mauger up to it?)
He can certainly not turn it round in a couple of games, I doubt if many could,
so we shall have to see what happens during the next couple of months.
He will feel entitled to at least try and who knows, he may yet surprise us.
What we must do though is to see through wins over the more ordinary clubs from now on
(as we have so often flattered to deceive) and see what happens when we play the next top/form team.
I hear through my contacts within the club that several top coaches have been
identified to take over, if indeed, it all goes to rat :censored:.

[drc_007]

One would expect to be able to see a discernible improvement in performance if Mauger is to have a long term future. So far it does not look good. I don't see him having any success without a dramatic improvement in the performance of the forwards and I don't believe the current forwards coach is up to the job.

For all his limitations RC was a good forwards coach and I suspect he will be successful at Toulon. In retrospect the mistake was making him the permanent DOR.

[Iain]

We lack experience in the coaching team. I think I'm right in saying we don't have a single coach over the age of 40, and of those only Mauger has coached anywhere else. Not only that but we are short staffed on the coaching side as well.

That's the first problem.

[jgriffin]

Quote from the Merc posted on the UnOffy:
"It begins to feel like rather than being the problem, Cockerill was holding a broken set-up together while dealing with inadequate coaching resources and whatever else we don't know about."
I'd agree with that. I'd also agree with a clearout of first XXIII coaching staff.

[Coops]

Quote from the Merc posted on the UnOffy:
"It begins to feel like rather than being the problem, Cockerill was holding a broken set-up together while dealing with inadequate coaching resources and whatever else we don't know about."
I'd agree with that. I'd also agree with a clearout of first XXIII coaching staff.

Agreed. Not convinced keeping the likes of Blaze, Murphy et al was the right decision.

Needs a complete clearout of all these non-playing injured players which are taking up our salary cap - Croft, Logo etc.

[jgriffin]

Quote from the Merc posted on the UnOffy:
"It begins to feel like rather than being the problem, Cockerill was holding a broken set-up together while dealing with inadequate coaching resources and whatever else we don't know about."
I'd agree with that. I'd also agree with a clearout of first XXIII coaching staff.

Agreed. Not convinced keeping the likes of Blaze, Murphy et al was the right decision.

Needs a complete clearout of all these non-playing injured players which are taking up our salary cap - Croft, Logo etc.

The latter would immediately involve contract severing and possibly more expense - I have no doubt both those worthies will be released in the summer their contract ends (this in one case not sure about the other), probably for some expensive and immediately injured star. No change there, then.

[kend]

The question on everyone's lips "Is Mauger up to it?
He can certainly not turn it round in a couple of games, I doubt if many could,
so we shall have to see what happens during the next couple of months.

Actually, he’s been head coach for 18 months. Even if they aren’t good enough to beat what was a strong Glasgow side, you would expect him to be able to turn out a side that plays it’s patterns and can score the odd try at home. Although I have sympathy for him, listening to his comments after the match was painful.

What I see are a side lacking in confidence and under tremendous pressure; the consequence of that is their decision making on the pitch is falling apart at key moments. Despite what is being said on here and elsewhere, they don’t lack effort and passion, but the energy levels drop as the mistakes mount up. The players haven’t suddenly lost the ability to play, so you have to question whether they have trust in the systems.

Whether the decision was right or wrong, IMHO the board made a mistake in the manner of Cockers removal. You had a side already struggling for form and confidence and you throw in a decision that causes more doubt and more uncertainty. Presumably they didn’t do that with the expectation that the performances would get worse - which they have. It was a poor call (at the very least in terms of timing) and someone has to take responsibility for that. If the side finish outside the top four (and IMHO they are one crucial injury away from ending up mid-table), then there should be board level resignations.

IMHO you have to leave AM there for the remainder of the season and stick with the programme. The last thing they need is further mid-season upheaval.

The Toulonnaise looked a much improved side over the weekend. Perhaps there is someone there who could provide some short term consultancy

[dunks43]

JGriffin wrote

I would agree with the first half of Smudge's post, but his longstanding campaign against RC blinds him to the issues I highlighted earlier, surrounding RC and in some cases using his willingness (naivety) in taking the job further when he should've walked

Yes I have been against him for years now but at least give me credit for being
consistent. I gives me no pleasure to be proved right so I have not chosen to gloat.

So cockers sacked was right in your opinion , yet the aggregate score since he left is 99-19 ..... Something tells me , it wasnt all his fault

[Old Hob]

Look, whether you agree with the decision or not the timing was right. Nothing major is going to change between now and May and we have 6 months to find someone new or to stick with what we have. Sacking someone at season's end means no new blood until January.

[ourla]

Yes I have been against him for years now but at least give me credit for being consistent. I gives me no pleasure to be proved right so I have not chosen to gloat.

You must be living in some parallel universe if you think you have been proven right.

We are at a crossroads which should have been seen coming years ago.Certainly the loss of the hard nuts you describe were a significant factor but the chaps I stand with have been telling this to anyone willing to listen for years now.It should have been tackled.

What exactly should have been tackled? What precisely do you think should have been done? And at precisely what point.

[Crumblies]

Quote from the Merc posted on the UnOffy:
"It begins to feel like rather than being the problem, Cockerill was holding a broken set-up together while dealing with inadequate coaching resources and whatever else we don't know about."
I'd agree with that. I'd also agree with a clearout of first XXIII coaching staff.

This really makes my blood boil, lets leap to Cockers defence at every opportunity whils being prepared to stick the knife into anyone and everyone else.

I hate to keep stating the obvious but what was Cockerill role again, oh thats right Director of Rugby. So if he was dealing with inadequate coaching resources, if it wasn't up to him to do something about it who was it upto? Who did recruit/promote Burke, Blaze & Murphy. If he was unhappy with the hand he was being dealt just what did he do about it?

You sympathise with Cockerill, yet Mauger has now been well & truly shafted. Left well & truly in the lurch with the remnants of an inexperienced all Leicester coaching structure not of his making, a changing room apparently divided and a board that have effectively removed any form of support and left him to it. Talk about a poisoned chalice. Is he any good I don't know under the circumstances if he manages to turn this mess around on his own, I think he'll be a miracle worker. As it is I think he is now destined to be another outsider 'collateral damage' viz Dwyer & Loffreda (and possibly Meyer).

[BFG]

Quote from the Merc posted on the UnOffy:
"It begins to feel like rather than being the problem, Cockerill was holding a broken set-up together while dealing with inadequate coaching resources and whatever else we don't know about."
I'd agree with that. I'd also agree with a clearout of first XXIII coaching staff.

This really makes my blood boil, lets leap to Cockers defence at every opportunity whils being prepared to stick the knife into anyone and everyone else.

I hate to keep stating the obvious but what was Cockerill role again, oh thats right Director of Rugby. So if he was dealing with inadequate coaching resources, if it wasn't up to him to do something about it who was it upto? Who did recruit/promote Burke, Blaze & Murphy. If he was unhappy with the hand he was being dealt just what did he do about it?

You sympathise with Cockerill, yet Mauger has now been well & truly shafted. Left well & truly in the lurch with the remnants of an inexperienced all Leicester coaching structure not of his making, a changing room apparently divided and a board that have effectively removed any form of support and left him to it. Talk about a poisoned chalice. Is he any good I don't know under the circumstances if he manages to turn this mess around on his own, I think he'll be a miracle worker. As it is I think he is now destined to be another outsider 'collateral damage' viz Dwyer & Loffreda (and possibly Meyer).

A bit of overreaction there!
Cockers made it clear a couple of years ago that he needed coaching assistance, he had limitations and admitted so, that assistance hadn't materialised into anything as yet and Cockers was holding things together on emotion, able to get a reaction from the players.
The second half at Gloucester, away loss at Wasps and then an away win at Falcons and then a win at home to Bath, heavy away loss at Glasgow and then win at home against Racing92, heavy loss to Munster and then a win the following week against Munster, second half against Wasps and a very competitive performance against Sarries etc.
Whether you think Cockers was good enough or not is irrelevant to the point which is as a collective group of coaches it would appear that he was the only one able to get anything positive out of the players in terms of performance levels.
Confidence has been low since the set piece hammering away at Sarries last season, we have been very fragile since then, doubt has crept in and some player politics also IMO from what I have seen of certain young players pulling the ears of certain other players on the pitch, brown nosing which I don't like personally as it shows a lack of character and creates groups within the group which is very negative.

[Crumblies]

BFG one persons considered opinion is another persons over reaction. I dare say you'll be saying next that the fans booing and leaving at half time was an over reaction and absolutely nothing to do with Richard Cockerill.