Manu out for season

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fleabane
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Re: Manu out for season

Post by fleabane » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:09 pm

Despite his injuries, stories abound. The latest is that he is going South! (Which means not Sale!)

Interest previously from Sarries, who are now losing Cashton, and Barrett not getting any younger, and Exeter, which might be a better fit. Then there's always France . . . .

Whatever the future brings, I hope he is able to pursue an active rugby career for years to come.
Valhalla I am coming!

chris111
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Re: Manu out for season

Post by chris111 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:19 pm

Roly wrote:
Its time to get rid of Tuilagi. And Croft for that matter.
I'd much prefer it if we were able to get rid of this callous manner of talking about people's careers.

I've come across a few HR personnel in my time who have used this sort of language - I guess it goes with the territory in their line of work. In a forum for supposed supporters of a rugby club, I find it gratuitously offensive.

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by Coops » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:33 pm

Obviously we don't know the ins and outs of his 3 year contract and whether there are break clauses etc contained within it, but you would hope it's water tight. Although with an "absence" rate of nearly 70% over the last few years, his appearance record doesn't make good reading:

Season 12-13: 15 appearances (inc SF and Final)
Season 13-14: 9 (inc SF)
Season 14-15: 3
Season 15-16: 10 (inc SF and 2x England)
Season 16-17: 5


Should we chose to "look after" him do you think or cut our losses?

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by Roly » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:48 pm

chris111 wrote:
Roly wrote:
Its time to get rid of Tuilagi. And Croft for that matter.
I'd much prefer it if we were able to get rid of this callous manner of talking about people's careers.

I've come across a few HR personnel in my time who have used this sort of language - I guess it goes with the territory in their line of work. In a forum for supposed supporters of a rugby club, I find it gratuitously offensive.

Aww bless.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by Roly » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:54 pm

Coops wrote:Obviously we don't know the ins and outs of his 3 year contract and whether there are break clauses etc contained within it, but you would hope it's water tight. Although with an "absence" rate of nearly 70% over the last few years, his appearance record doesn't make good reading:

Season 12-13: 15 appearances (inc SF and Final)
Season 13-14: 9 (inc SF)
Season 14-15: 3
Season 15-16: 10 (inc SF and 2x England)
Season 16-17: 5


Should we chose to "look after" him do you think or cut our losses?
Cut our losses.

Its most likely a financial no-brainer, not to mention common sense. Its about time people accepted that in the professional era, rugby clubs are a business, and players are assets - providing they're playing of course.

That's the cold light of day. However gratuitously offensive you might think it is.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by Cagey Tiger » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:00 pm

Roly wrote:
Phil B wrote:It is correct - this is a new injury. It simply confirms that he is injury prone. As such, he has had little to offer on the credit side of the equation for a number of years. I think this surely has to be his last rehab for us, and then let's hope his luck changes.
"Stupidity is doing the same thing and expecting different results" (A Einstein).

Its time to get rid of Tuilagi. And Croft for that matter.
Phil B, I cannot see reason why getting injured when 3 people fall on top of you confirms that he is injury prone. If he was frequently getting shoulder and elbow injuries when tackling people, then yes, but this? No way.

Roly, I'm sure there were some Newcastle supporters who were glad when Jonny Wilkinson left them after a really bad run of injuries. Went on to play a major part in Toulon's 3 European triumphs in a row. Not saying that Manu will do that if he stays, but letting him go would be a gamble. You, being the pessimist that you are, feel that that is a gamble we should take. Others don't.

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by Roly » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:15 pm

Cagey Tiger wrote:
Roly wrote:
Phil B wrote:It is correct - this is a new injury. It simply confirms that he is injury prone. As such, he has had little to offer on the credit side of the equation for a number of years. I think this surely has to be his last rehab for us, and then let's hope his luck changes.
"Stupidity is doing the same thing and expecting different results" (A Einstein).

Its time to get rid of Tuilagi. And Croft for that matter.
Phil B, I cannot see reason why getting injured when 3 people fall on top of you confirms that he is injury prone. If he was frequently getting shoulder and elbow injuries when tackling people, then yes, but this? No way.

Roly, I'm sure there were some Newcastle supporters who were glad when Jonny Wilkinson left them after a really bad run of injuries. Went on to play a major part in Toulon's 3 European triumphs in a row. Not saying that Manu will do that if he stays, but letting him go would be a gamble. You, being the pessimist that you are, feel that that is a gamble we should take. Others don't.
One should only gamble with what one can afford to lose, so perhaps you're right.
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by jgriffin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:17 pm

chris111 wrote:
Roly wrote:
Its time to get rid of Tuilagi. And Croft for that matter.
I'd much prefer it if we were able to get rid of this callous manner of talking about people's careers.

I've come across a few HR personnel in my time who have used this sort of language - I guess it goes with the territory in their line of work. In a forum for supposed supporters of a rugby club, I find it gratuitously offensive.
Perhaps it's time to get rid of Roly, Chris?
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chris111
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Re: Manu out for season

Post by chris111 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:27 pm

Roly wrote:
chris111 wrote:
Roly wrote:
Its time to get rid of Tuilagi. And Croft for that matter.
I'd much prefer it if we were able to get rid of this callous manner of talking about people's careers.

I've come across a few HR personnel in my time who have used this sort of language - I guess it goes with the territory in their line of work. In a forum for supposed supporters of a rugby club, I find it gratuitously offensive.

Aww bless.
I'm not entirely sure of point you are making, but I assume you are patronising me for being a sentimental old fool. I can live with that, but it won't change my view that rugby is more than simply a commercial enterprise where players are bought, sucked dry of profitable skill and discarded when of insufficient value.

Let's just agree to disagree, shall we? Looking at your posting track record here I doubt we will find much common ground.

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by tigercaspian » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:28 pm

jgriffin wrote:
chris111 wrote:
Roly wrote:
Its time to get rid of Tuilagi. And Croft for that matter.
I'd much prefer it if we were able to get rid of this callous manner of talking about people's careers.

I've come across a few HR personnel in my time who have used this sort of language - I guess it goes with the territory in their line of work. In a forum for supposed supporters of a rugby club, I find it gratuitously offensive.
Perhaps it's time to get rid of Roly, Chris?
+1

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by strawclearer » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:30 pm

Roly wrote:
chris111 wrote:
Roly wrote:
Its time to get rid of Tuilagi. And Croft for that matter.
I'd much prefer it if we were able to get rid of this callous manner of talking about people's careers.

I've come across a few HR personnel in my time who have used this sort of language - I guess it goes with the territory in their line of work. In a forum for supposed supporters of a rugby club, I find it gratuitously offensive.

Aww bless.... Its about time people accepted that in the professional era, rugby clubs are a business, and players are assets - providing they're playing of course. That's the cold light of day. However gratuitously offensive you might think it is..

There was indeed a time when, as Marx might have put it, the HR profession led the way in estranging people at work from their humanity. Anyone in business at a senior level in those less enlightened times should hang their head in shame at the mere mention of the term 'human resources'. (I'm reddening as I type this!)

Thank goodness, we moved on some little while ago to realising that people were actually at their best when they were encouraged to use their ingenuity, their natural enthusiasm and inquisitiveness - when they were treated not as resources but as people. We went from only giving them enough rope to hang themselves to giving them as much rope as they needed to hang the competition!

So - saying it goes (present tense) with the territory is hopefully in the past - we've moved on from treating people with such contempt and referring to them in gratuitously offensive ways. Roly is right - people really are our best (almost our only) assets in a business/professional sport context - but he's very wrong in believing that the language of 'getting rid' of fellow human beings who've devoted themselves to something that really matters on an emotional level is the best way to get optimum performance from them and their fellow assets. Not in the cold light of day.
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Re: Manu out for season

Post by chris111 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:32 pm

[/quote]
Perhaps it's time to get rid of Roly, Chris?[/quote]

No, I don't think so - from what I've seen of this forum it's a generally civilised space, but it would be a little bland without the occasional misanthropic provocation!
Last edited by chris111 on Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by chris111 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:35 pm

[/quote] There was indeed a time when, as Marx might have put it, the HR profession led the way in estranging people at work from their humanity. Anyone in business at a senior level in those less enlightened times should hang their head in shame at the mere mention of the term 'human resources'. (I'm reddening as I type this!)

Thank goodness, we moved on some little while ago to realising that people were actually at their best when they were encouraged to use their ingenuity, their natural enthusiasm and inquisitiveness - when they were treated not as resources but as people. We went from only giving them enough rope to hang themselves to giving them as much rope as they needed to hang the competition!

So - saying it goes (present tense) with the territory is hopefully in the past - we've moved on from treating people with such contempt and referring to them in gratuitously offensive ways. Roly is right - people really are our best (almost our only) assets in a business/professional sport context - but he's very wrong in believing that the language of 'getting rid' of fellow human beings who've devoted themselves to something that really matters on an emotional level is the best way to get optimum performance from them and their fellow assets. Not in the cold light of day.[/quote]

Well said - I am not actually at all naïve and sentimental; it was Roly's choice of language that I find distasteful.

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Re: Manu out for season

Post by jgriffin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:39 pm

To be fair to Roly I believe that Croft, Smithy, Tait and possibly Manu will be gone, along with several other players - some longstanding, some 'projects', some 'retired' (i.e. don't want to play for anyone else). I am just hoping we haven't engineered the return of Ford in two years by laying waste to our midfield and replacing them with blokes AM plucks from the SH.
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Re: Manu out for season

Post by Roly » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:42 pm

strawclearer wrote:
So - saying it goes (present tense) with the territory is hopefully in the past - we've moved on from treating people with such contempt and referring to them in gratuitously offensive ways. Roly is right - people really are our best (almost our only) assets in a business/professional sport context - but he's very wrong in believing that the language of 'getting rid' of fellow human beings who've devoted themselves to something that really matters on an emotional level is the best way to get optimum performance from them and their fellow assets. Not in the cold light of day.
I'm not sure how you get optimum performance from a player who's been injured for 70% of his time at the club, or how his fellow players feel every time he's miraculously parachuted back in after seemingly being rehabilitated?
“It is no use saying, ‘We are doing our best.’ You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.” Sir Winston Churchill.

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