The search for an 8 continues

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L Smith
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by L Smith » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:40 am

northerntiger wrote:No, he's not the huge, tackle breaking 8 people on here want so much
Interesting point: got me thinking. Would he look ordinary in the type of static team that we often resemble? I think back to Brendon O'Connor's last games in the ITM cup and he looked a very good 8 but you wouldn't pick him at 8 in the AP. Is that because he's not bulky enough or because of the overall quality around him? :smt017
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Skin_and_Muscle
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by Skin_and_Muscle » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:55 am

L Smith wrote:
northerntiger wrote:No, he's not the huge, tackle breaking 8 people on here want so much
Interesting point: got me thinking. Would he look ordinary in the type of static team that we often resemble? I think back to Brendon O'Connor's last games in the ITM cup and he looked a very good 8 but you wouldn't pick him at 8 in the AP. Is that because he's not bulky enough or because of the overall quality around him? :smt017
I don't know if that's the case. O'Connor, for instance, was the star player in a very poor Blues team. The game is very different in the Northern Hemisphere and he's adapting very well. I would imagine it'd be the same for Read; good players look great in the right environment, quality players can adapt to whatever environment they're playing in.
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by RagingBull » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:15 pm

Speaking of NZ 8's I would like to see us chase Dixon or Squires with Read staying till 2019 one or the other might be lured away.

KevinR
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by KevinR » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:23 pm

Have to say, Picamoles looked lumberingly average for Saints last night - IMO a big ball carrier isn't everything!

mol2
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by mol2 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:50 pm

A big ball carrying 8 might not be everything but aside from Genge where do we have a big ball carrier in the forwards?
In the modern game you need ball carriers. Thacker perhaps at 2 but that weakens the scrum. Bateman looks capable but we seem determined to turn him into a prop. OTY doesn't carry like he did.
Our second rows wouldn't make the bench at some clubs.

Our forwards are stuck in a time warp.

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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by rocktop51 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:07 pm

The loss of TTEchas come back to haunt us methinkks
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by RagingBull » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:16 pm

rocktop51 wrote:The loss of TTEchas come back to haunt us methinkks
Nah, we need physicality and that isn't what he brings.

Mo Leicester
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by Mo Leicester » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:52 pm

Jamie heaslip anyone?

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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by northerntiger » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:49 pm

I think we're all missing the problem a bit. Man for man, our team is as good as, or better than anyone's, on paper. But a winning team is better than the sum of its parts, Sarries are, wasps are. We are not. And that is up to the coaching set up

sam16111986
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by sam16111986 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:06 am

mol2 wrote:A big ball carrying 8 might not be everything but aside from Genge where do we have a big ball carrier in the forwards?
In the modern game you need ball carriers. Thacker perhaps at 2 but that weakens the scrum. Bateman looks capable but we seem determined to turn him into a prop. OTY doesn't carry like he did.
Our second rows wouldn't make the bench at some clubs.

Our forwards are stuck in a time warp.
When I saw Bateman throw in at the lineout previously he looked like he'd struggle to hit the broadside of a barn.

Kitchener stole more lineouts than anybody else last year (or was it the year before?), he has a history of being excellent at the set piece and Thorn said he'd have made him an All Black. Slater has previously captained England's midweek team and would be an international but for injuries. They are more than good enough, we aren't getting the most from them. Same for all the pack.

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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by wormus » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:42 am

sam16111986 wrote:
mol2 wrote:A big ball carrying 8 might not be everything but aside from Genge where do we have a big ball carrier in the forwards?
In the modern game you need ball carriers. Thacker perhaps at 2 but that weakens the scrum. Bateman looks capable but we seem determined to turn him into a prop. OTY doesn't carry like he did.
Our second rows wouldn't make the bench at some clubs.

Our forwards are stuck in a time warp.
When I saw Bateman throw in at the lineout previously he looked like he'd struggle to hit the broadside of a barn.

Kitchener stole more lineouts than anybody else last year (or was it the year before?), he has a history of being excellent at the set piece and Thorn said he'd have made him an All Black. Slater has previously captained England's midweek team and would be an international but for injuries. They are more than good enough, we aren't getting the most from them. Same for all the pack.
Tigers are missing a first class forwards coach, it is beyond Richard Blaze- water boy maybe but not a modern forwards coach - shame we missed out on Rowntree. :smt023

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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by trendylfj » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:33 pm

It doesn't really matter if you are 18,19 or 20 st if you do not take the ball going forward at pace. Defences Will handle most static situations and most of the time we are taking the ball almost standing still. We need a structure where our existing ball carriers come from much deeper and our SH's find the man coming from deep. This probably means 2 or 3 of our forwards taking it in turns to make these sort of runs. I am more worried at the moment about out inability to defend the rolling maul. If I was coaching our next 3 opponents, I would have them practising mauls every day of the week. It is a very big weakness at present.
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westwinds31
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by westwinds31 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:49 pm

Vunipola when fit, Hughes, Faletau, Waldrom, Morgan, Beaumont, Chisholm even....these guys get over the gain line, allowing their scrum half to dictate play...front foot ball. We have one of the best 9s in world rugby who is digging the ball out of rucks because we haven't cleared it out properly and is constantly getting slow ball !! Who gets over the gain line for us ? Nobody. We die with the ball, don't off load and have failed against good breakdown sides too often this season. It's a mindset change that's needed and we need to get players in who don't just chug the ball up and run into other players.

manxleigh
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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by manxleigh » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:57 pm

There is only one number 8 I would break the bank for CJ Stander he is awesome!
keep dreaming and you'll keep wondering

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Re: The search for an 8 continues

Post by grobyman » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:44 pm

If Tom Youngs can move from centre to hooker, what about Ellis Genge from prop to number 8. He is a big unit, aggressive and can carry.....

Just a thought!!!

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