Tom Youngs - Captain

[iceman_19]

I need to caveat all of the below by saying that I have long been a huge fan of Tom Youngs as a player and as a Tiger - somebody who always gives nothing less than his all for the club - and he strikes me as a top bloke on top of all that.

But I suspect I'm not the only one who has doubts about whether he is right for captaincy. On Saturday, the guy clearly (not for the first time this season) got on the wrong side of the referee and doesn't seem to be able to develop a relationship/understanding with the 'sir' that allows us to stay the right side of the whistle. Don't get me wrong, the referee on Saturday was abysmal (particularly in the first half) but still, OTY was pinged 5 times (6 if you count the infringement which was let go due to the Munster try) in 73 minutes and seemed to constantly be arguing with the man in the middle.

I appreciate that having a ref like that must be massively frustrating but if, as a skipper, you are losing your rag and conceding penalty after penalty, then it doesn't do the team as a whole any favours.

On top of that, his lineouts seem to be faltering at key times more often this season and I'm yet to be convinced by his decision making - such as last week in Limerick, when we finally won a penalty at 6-0 down and had a chance to get our hands on the ball and apply pressure, but OTY opted for a 50/50 shot at the posts from miles out, something a lot of us thought at the time to be a negative and confusing call.

My choice would be YBY or Ed to be reinstated as captain, both of whom seem to take to it more easily, and let OTY concentrate on his game going forward.

[Tigerbeat]

with respect, Tom Youngs was doing what I would be expecting of any Captain. He was seeking clarification for decisions and also raising concerns.
He is the only person that is allowed to communicate with the ref and is the representative of the team.

[iceman_19]

with respect, Tom Youngs was doing what I would be expecting of any Captain. He was seeking clarification for decisions and also raising concerns.
He is the only person that is allowed to communicate with the ref and is the representative of the team.

I don't disagree Tigerbeat, but that's not quite what I'm saying. There are different ways of clarifying and, in my view, Tom seems to struggle to stay the right side between clarification and appearing to moan. Tom very rarely seems to be able to strike up an accord with referees like many of the best captains do.

[Frankers]

I was listening on the ref link and he seemed to antagonise the referee. He had clearly lost his cool.

[TomWeston]

I was listening on the ref link and he seemed to antagonise the referee. He had clearly lost his cool.

One or two of us in the Crumble did too, Gauzere was pants.

[G.K]

Yes the ref was rubbish but the Captain needs to be smart enough to deal with that situation in a better fashion, I'm afraid Tom isn't.

[voice of the crumbie]

[quote="iceman_19"]still, OTY was pinged 5 times (6 if you count the infringement which was let go due to the Munster try) in 73 minutes and seemed to constantly be arguing with the man in the middle.[quote]

The infringement was not let go. Tom got carded for it and spent the remaining time in the sin bin.

[leic]

I thought Tom was immense in Saturday. Cannot understand your post! The game was brilliant and I thought he led from the front. The ref was dreadful!

[Noddy555]

I have said until I'm blue in the face that the Club Captain as well as the team Captain should be Ed Slater. Ed is a born leader and showed that when he was Captain before at the beginning of last season until he got that horrible injury.
As a player he has returned to top form and must be one of the first names on the team sheet, Please Cockers put someone in charge that will lead the team and not get sent off due to constantly questionning too loudly the refs decisions. Ed is a quiet man by nature and you know that they say silence speaks volumes.

[iceman_19]

I thought Tom was immense in Saturday. Cannot understand your post! The game was brilliant and I thought he led from the front. The ref was dreadful!

I'm not saying he played badly, but I think he was a long way off being immense. His carrying was much more like the Tom of old and was very impressive, but his discipline was absolutely abysmal. He was responsible for giving away penalties for c.9 of Munster's points, his yellow card for bringing down the maul was brainless because - if Munster hadn't scored - it would have been a penalty try in any event, and as mentioned he only seemed to wind up the referee by (somewhat justifiably) getting angry about a number of calls.

Referees' interpretations are always a headache and it is a huge part of the captaincy to get a rapport and understanding going with the man in the middle. I'm not convinced that this comes naturally to Tom, and I think his decision making at key moments is questionable too.

I think Tom, on his day, is a fantastic player but I wonder if he would more regularly hit his best form (which he has been short of this season) without the burden of captaincy, especially when we have a couple of guys who seem to be more naturally suited (such as Ed and YBY).

Voice of Crumbie - thanks for correcting me on the yellow card, had forgotten that!

[Seal]

Ed is at the moment the only person I can see as an out and out natural leader. Youngs doesn't do it for me, we've been on the wrong side of the ref pretty much every game this season, Sale, Munster x2, Sarries all examples that stick out to me.

The only reason Ed isn't still captain is because of injury and form issues last season, how many times did Tait have to take up the armband?

Lenny could be a good captain, he was the one who very sternly asked Owen if he could get the kick over, he should go for it. However he is too much of a confidence player, all too often you see his head go down and he gets frustrated when things aren't going to plan. He is also away too much with England.

McCaffrey could be up there in contention in a season or so, but would need a starting place nailed on first.