Ben Youngs

[MrPartridge]

Brilliant for England, shocking for us.

Is that an over-simplification?

Seriously, I reckon someone should have checked it wasn't his dopple-ganger in Limerick after the way he played against Australia the previous week!

[Iain]

He'd have been shocking for England too if the ball he'd received had been that shocking.

[Soggypitch]

He'd have been shocking for England too if the ball he'd received had been that shocking.

That doesn't excuse his abysmal kicking on Saturday though!

[Noggs]

He did have a bad day at the office but equally it was all back foot ball with little or no space to work. I think this reflects more on our speed to the breakdown and lack of physicality than it does on Ben but that said I would have hoped for better.

[grobyman]

He did have a bad day at the office but equally it was all back foot ball with little or no space to work. I think this reflects more on our speed to the breakdown and lack of physicality than it does on Ben but that said I would have hoped for better.

Agree not a great day at the office, but to compare Tigers with the qualities he has around with England is way beyond chalk and cheese. There a multitude of big ball carriers on tap, a very solid defence, these two issues particularly the ball carrying are and have been missing for this season. This must affect confidence levels in your teammates, perhaps at present at club level he doesn't have this?

[jgriffin]

I think it is simply that he is now a big-game player, and that does affect people emotionally and behaviourally. He does over-elaborate sometimes, and definitely has very off kicking days. After an international sequence I'd stand him down and start Shazam, frankly, with BY coming on later if at all. I think too much was asked and expected regardless and he needed a week off.

[Grumpy of Crumbie]

Very little if any front foot ball, poor ball presentation from the breakdown (speed and quality), no runners arriving at pace, poor set piece.

Good luck having a good game at scrum half with that!!

For England reverse all of the above.

[BFG]

Ben Youngs always struggles when his side can't dominate the breakdown.
Sam on the other hand is the type to put his head in and add an extra body at the ruck and leave distribution to the next man.
Given Tigers struggle with the breakdown recently it's compounded further for Youngs.
I think a 9 needs to be prepared to stick his head in occasionally if he wants to be considered world class.

[Seal]

I disagree that his kicking was poor, they were all contestable kicks, he just had no-one to chase them. Betham didn't look bothered at all. For England he has Yarde/May/Watson/Brown/Roko tearing down the wing after every ball.

[Jay C]

The kick chase wasn't great, but his kicking was not helping as it was too long at times and a bit aimless as well.

He is our best player based on England form, so had to start the match but it was apparent early on that he was not having a good game...

[iceman_19]

He had a disappointing game but from where I was stood at the match, the kick chase was beyond abysmal. It actually winds me up just thinking about it. For England, the wingers and back row - Chris Robshaw in particular - hare after any high kick. Even if it's gone too far to contest, they rush up to close down the counter-attacking space. Against Munster, the chase was utter dog-(censored). The times I saw Youngs get his chasers organised, and then watched as they set off at a light canter after the ball filled me with despair. I can see Ed and Fitz gently trotting after it now. That comes down to hunger for me and is almost more worrying than some of the numerous tactical deficiencies we have.

[Bowden Tiger]

One thing I do believe is totally wrong is that England play a week before the Champions Cup, giving no time for players to get used to playing with their clubs. I know an answer will be for the clubs to rest them, but I believe it was wrong, very poor planning by the RFU.

[drc_007]

He had a disappointing game but from where I was stood at the match, the kick chase was beyond abysmal. It actually winds me up just thinking about it. For England, the wingers and back row - Chris Robshaw in particular - hare after any high kick. Even if it's gone too far to contest, they rush up to close down the counter-attacking space. Against Munster, the chase was utter dog-(censored). The times I saw Youngs get his chasers organised, and then watched as they set off at a light canter after the ball filled me with despair. I can see Ed and Fitz gently trotting after it now. That comes down to hunger for me and is almost more worrying than some of the numerous tactical deficiencies we have.

This is spot on, and it really annoys me. Also why do all the Tigers scrum-halves have to organise a defensive wall before taking a box kick? In other teams forwards seem to know they have to do this and don't require the No9 to tell them.

[BFG]

Well blow me I can't believe none of you lot have taken the time to comment or perhaps didn't even notice, maybe as froggy eyed as that referee or against women's rights, but was that Ben Youngs leading head first into a turnover and pouncing on several loose balls today!

[GS]

Well blow me I can't believe none of you lot have taken the time to comment or perhaps didn't even notice, maybe as froggy eyed as that referee or against women's rights, but was that Ben Youngs leading head first into a turnover and pouncing on several loose balls today!

BFG, may I remind you of one of the prime rules of the forum? The one that says you must never let a fact get in the way of your argument, especially when you're having a dig at someone.